It would be nice to eventually get back to the 8k video. I was recently looking at some of the previous 6K videos on the zcam k2 which has more lifelike sizing but the visual quality was definitely not as good as the recent 8K which has much better visuals IMO but larger scaling. Using Pimax 8k x with 3080 ti on heresphere. Trade offs here I can see the pros and cons of each one. Too bad not everyone can be satisfied.
justanotherone Meta quest2 still occupy the market which is not that good to watch 8k .Not everyone can afford the high price of pimax8k and a highend computer...
I used to own the K2 pro and upgraded to the Canon r5 c and they are completely different FOV lenses and the R5 C should not be left in fisheye view, I don't understand why you keep publishing videos in fisheye, you have to convert to equirectangular to get proper 180 FOV.
metichemsi other people using the Canon camera (VRHush and FuckpassVR) had the same scaling and distortion issues and they do not use the fisheye option.
petermc I'll look through some of their scenes to see if I can see it. Not sure what conversion software or process those sites use but I'll try comparing scaling vs my own footage to see if I see a difference. Most likely have to do with the IPD difference between the two systems.
petermc This is true but I have also seen some excellent work with the R5C with correct scaling, so it is possible to get it correct(though possible it's more limiting over 64 IPD cameras )
For example watch this scene from Fuckpass https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/that-happened-in-vegas-31111
fathergll great example, this whole debacle with the r5c seems to also have roots with their previous European team who sound like they screwed things up and are now gone. From what I have read so far it seems like the European team was filming 8k at 30fps and then leaving the footage in fisheye, quite possibly the worst way to watch content. They should have been filming in 60p and doing proper eqyirectangular conversions like in that scene. I also think that some or part of the decision might have also been from the fact that they have been working on their own custom 10k camera solution so investing on Canon and being locked in that ecosystem at this point might not have been the right long term goal. Just look at how long they were filming with the k2 pro, they will pick one camera system and stick with it for several years before another upgrade
metichemsi I wasn't aware they were filming in 30FPS though SLR does interpolate to 60 FPS so that may have been part of the issue but KinkygirlsBerlin filmed in 8K 30fps because they used the R5 and they didn't have big issues(though not ideal to interpolate)
The biggest SLR Original R5C issues early on were the fisheye like you said and #1 was the scenes appeared out of focus which I don't know if it was from user error or lens issue. This was their first R5C scene https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/big-tits-at-the-glory-hole-26692?tab=downloads
Apparently, they have remastered this which I haven't viewed yet but from 11 months ago they commented " SLR Originals - Evan, Head of Post-production 11 months ago
yes, I agreed, this scene is slightly out of focus, we need some time to handle this new camera. "
But yes equirectangular conversions is such an important thing along with the age old challenge of placing the camera and model just the right distance which is something that has been always a challenge for all studios(though some are more consistent that others). R5C is probably more critical to get all of these things aligned precisely. Other challenged I have seen with the R5C is that Canon Raw Light can be extremely noisy if not used with certain settings. It's a known issue and some theorized that Netflix rejected the R5C from their Netflix certification because of the RAW. NaughtyAmerica is using the R5C and their early releases with it were completely unwatchable because the entire thing was noise(they corrected much of that since)
Definitely a challenging camera from what we've seen. WankzVR and StripZVR commented they wouldn't use this camera because of the IPD but there seems to be ways of making it work.
fathergll Yes, this scene is severely out of focus, the production team should have done a proper check before shooting. Also, the aperture you chose also plays a big part, if they shot this at f2.8 I can see how they could more easily screw up the focus. I personally calibrate my focus on my r5c before each shoot. I printed large 2'x3' focus card sheets. F5.6 is the sweet spot for this lens but you will need more light indoors, I only shoot at f2.8 indoors when I know all of my action will stay relatively compact. Also, since the focus ring is so accessible it could have just as likely been someone accidently bumping the focus ring while they were rigging or adjusting something else haha, that has happened to me also.
There is no way around the difference in IPD between the 2 cameras. Regarding the scale difference, the best solution I have seen to match the scale difference is to zoom in each lens of the r5c in, it does zoom in and artificially increase the IPD of the footage, it also leaves a little bit of warp on the far edges, but the scaling is essentially matched to the k2 pro footage. Not an ideal solution but it is possible.
And yes, you are absolutely right, there are studios who are putting out perfectly good content with this camera, just like the other scene you shared in one of your previous posts.
Regarding noise, yes it does have noise, specially when you shoot at its base ISO of 800. The problem I have discovered in all my testing is that you should not shoot at iso 800 for VR in the first place. Yes, base ISO will give you the best dynamic range, but this mentality comes from mainly the non vr filming standards. Noise suppression is far more important in VR than a little more dynamic range. There are plenty of other manual ways to control the lighting of your scene than to rely on dynamic range from its base ISO. I personally use 100, 200, or maybe even 400 ISO when I shoot and the noise levels are good enough at 400 and almost non-existing at 100-200. I also have been using the canon VR utility to convert to equirectangular and their tool has a build in noise reduction dial, which cleans things up even more. I have not needed to do any noise reduction using those 2 methods. yes, you might need to use a little more light and you lose out on some dynamic range, but who cares, I'm not going to purposely film in super contrast scenes in the first place. I really think that was also part of the noise issue some people were complaining about. Some studios stuck to the traditional way of thinking to only shoot at base ISO levels and found out that trying to apply noise reduction in post on a 8k video will take ages haha and said screw it, its good enough.
metichemsi Good points.
"zoom in each lens of the r5c in, it does zoom in and artificially increase the IPD of the footage, it also leaves a little bit of warp on the far edges"
When you say zoom in are you talking about in post using Mistika boutique?
fathergll Thanks
Yes, but no longer in Mistika, I am manually adjusting each eye in premiere since it's fisheye and the passthrough scenes are in fisheye mode, I just take some fisheye footage from my R5C and adjust each eye individually when I key in my own custom backgrounds on their passthrough scenes. It's not a perfect match but I have it pretty close now, with a little fisheye curvature on the far edges, which I dont personally mind because I'm never looking at the far edges anyways, even though I am using a pimax headset. I still have some tweaking to do, my computers comes to a stop when I try to edit this live using the live preview on premiere, i just dont have enough ram I think for all this and my CPU starts crying haha
My best passthrough experience has been taking some of my old k2 pro footage I still have and simply keying that as the background for their passthrough scenes shot on a k2 pro as well. Unfortunately I no longer have my k2 pro since I upgraded to the canon system, so I dont necessarily have much footage that will work as a background, never really expected to be doing this at this point when i still owned it haha But for the couple of shots I still have that actually work out as backgrounds, one of my bed and the other of my living room floor, they look incredible. I even took a little bit of time to adjust colors and exposure to try and "match" them a little more while also cleaning up the greenscreen spill a little more, and they look incredible because my custom background is the same resolution as the passthrough scene haha
fathergll Hey, out of curiosity can you tell me what you think of this other 8k equirectangular scene in terms of scale.
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/romatic-sex-after-a-morning-walk-28220?playlist=269694
metichemsi Scale looks really good.
When she put her face to the camera outside it gave that hyper real feeling and the BJ scene the camera placement was perfect which is rare as most producers put the camera too far towards the male talents head.
Downside is the camera was left in the same position for cowgirl which led to a poor viewing at that angle. This is basically the Achilles heel of most videos I have seen. Camera tends to be left in 1 spot for BJ and sex which is difficult to pull off as usually one will suffer over the other unless a middle ground is found or alternative new camera position which obviously adds to complexity time for production.
Off topic from the scale;
The video seems soft if it was from a true 8K source and not upscaled. Data rate didn't seem that low so not sure what seemed off about it. Still looked good.
Low noise/grain in footage was nice for bedroom part.
Part of the problem is that production team got greatly disconnected with user side of things. They really enjoyed shooting on Canon, yet didn't realise how poor the quality is. Also I'm surprised video-editing team didn't notice it either.
We really need someone in the team to get on top of it so we can get a sense of every aspect of the camera and post-production. Hopes @Sandi_SLR can make things work
doublevr I wouldnt say the quality is the issue with the canon system. Poor focusing and scaling are the only gripes with the system, when shot correctly the actually quality of the image is not matched by other systems.
If by quality you are also including scaling then yes
Hunky-Dory I dont know if you actually use the system or color grade, but contrast and colors are not an issue with the camera but with the crew who shoots and they dont know how to shoot correctly to maximize dynamic range and the colors are from the post production team. Basing on the kind of colors they render out from their k2 pro scenes, its an active choice they are making or lack of proper color grading skills.
The R5C is a full fledged cinema camera with high dynamic range so dont tell me it's not good enough for porn haha
Get proper crew that know how to use it and color grade, then we can have that discussion. I'm sure netflix would also not certify this camera if it had shit contrast and colors haha
Anyways, yes the scaling is an issue on closeup subjects, canon did not make this lens for porn where everything is meant to be within a meter of the lens. The IPD of this camera has a further sweetspot between 1 and 2 meters away
doublevr Part of the problem is that production team got greatly disconnected with user side of things. They really enjoyed shooting on Canon, yet didn't realise how poor the quality is. Also I'm surprised video-editing team didn't notice it either.
The quality on the Canon wasn't poor at all. Why do you spread such false information?
Some people had issues with the scale, especially on their Quest 2 rigs, but the picture quality was much better than anything you ever produced on your 6k rig. That's just a fact.
