VR Porn is perceived as sexual simulation

pkloverx

I noticed that the VR porn scene is actually a niche section of the wider porn scene, where people that are into simulating sex, with fleshlights, dolls etc, find their home with VR.
Or maybe the other way around, with VR porn they discover they are into simulating so they get themselves some sex toys to level up the experience.

I believe there is a big silent crowd that turns away form VR Porn when all they are presented with is a simulation fetish.
In the title I say VR porn, but really I mean POV VR porn. By only producing POV and catering to the people into simulating, I believe it has created this stagnant effect, and it's also why you get an initial flamewar whenever a new studio starts posting NonPov.

This is a recent realization of mine , after watching on and off for 3 years... If there were no NonPov videos, I wouldn't have made a SLR account simply because I'm not into simulating having sex. But when I saw that nonpov was a thing, I was sold, as it's an objectively better experience than flatscreen, like going from 480p to 4k, can't go back.

This GIF summarizes how VR Porn is seen. Not everyone is into that, and it doesen't have to be that way. Imo we are needlessly stuck with an old trope, just because that's what worked at VR inception, in the google cardboard days.

Vrsumo2017

pkloverx yes bro! More non pov, more moving vr cams, I'd also ask for more male interaction too with voice for pov sex.

Pov is the stable of vrp, it will always be there and it's in a great space right now, all studios are killing it with pov!

But it's time for more non pov!! I wanna see our favorite vr hotties get smashed!

Stand me in the porn, stand me in the class room, stand me in the locker room, stand me at a window looking in watching a couple fuck, more nonpov! Freak off Orgie parties!, walking through a house everywhere fucking, in every room!

Will be fun! MORE NON POV!

pkloverx

SexLikeReal has this idea in its name, since the inception of VR, it was seen as a "reality simulator device", you could wear it and have virtual sex... like real.
And so, at first the studios did both NonPov and Pov, but very quickly they saw that Pov was received better by the initial VR pioneers, which makes sense, they got into VR because they too were after the "simulator" idea, and so they wanted the camera to be strapped on the chest or forehead of the guy so they could have a better simulation.

And now many studios are still stuck catering to the little big crowd that is into simulating intercourse, turning away people that are not into that, who just want to sit back and watch, as that's what porn is all about for billions of people on flatscreen.

rerun119

pkloverx And now many studios are still stuck catering to the little big crowd that is into simulating intercourse, turning away people that are not into that, who just want to sit back and watch, as that's what porn is all about for billions of people on flatscreen.

You keep saying that because people watch 2d and that is a camera watching people have sex. That's what people want. 2d and VR are to completely different things. You can't look at your phone and have POV like in VR. It doesn't work period. So to say people don't watch POV in 2d means they don't like it is a crazy idea. They're different mediums.

pkloverx Those 1.8mil weekly VR owner porn watchers, know that VR Porn is a thing, but they aren't interested... Why, it's open for guesses, and this is my guess.

How about the idea that 1.8 mil weekly VR owners are not adults. Have you ever looked at the breakdown of the ages of VR headset owners?
Do you think new Quest owners are likely to be 50 or 15?
Just give up and say you like to watch people have sex and wish there was more videos that you liked.

petermc

While the simulation thing is true to an extent, I think it’s true of VR as a medium, not just VR Porn.

When you play a VR video game, you’re transported into the game as opposed to just watching it on a tv screen as you would on your Xbox. VR Porn is the same, instead of just watching the porno on your tv, you’re actually in the porno (or as close as you can be).

The issue VR Porn has for me is that a vocal element of the VR porn community don’t actually want to be in a porno. They want to be in a realistic (in their mind) sexual encounter with a wholesome, pretty, girl next door and make sweet intimate love to them. There is a place for this obviously but it isn’t what the vast majority of porn is about. So you get your regular porn fans, who watch pornstars having crazy porn sex and think “wow, it would be amazing to see this in VR” only to find that there’s comparatively very little of it in VR and it’s all very vanilla boring sex with all natural young girls that goes on forever. Plus the people who like that GFE stuff are incredibly hostile to anything that deviates from it. The regular porn fans who want to see their favourite stars having the type of sex they’re used to seeing ultimately don’t bother sticking around.

In terms of having non-POV stuff in VR, it seems like a bit of a waste unless they involve you in the scene so you’re still “there”. Like a cuck scenario or some other kind of voyeur scenario. I think most people get into VR (porn or otherwise) to experience things as if you’re there not to just watch a 3d movie.

pkloverx

petermc Agree with everything, especially with the people that don't stick around, as I was one of them.

I am all for immersing myself in a videogame that tracks my body, has physics and everything else going for building the immersion, that's why I got VR.

But that's not what VR as a technology is limited to, especially videos ,180 3D videos are an amazing medium, even for SFW.
It's like watching a flatscreen video, but you are fully in it as if you were having a vision/dream/remote view.
There's no need to imagine having a body in it, it's completely redundant, and if you put a body with no tracking that just stands or lays there, like POV porn does, for some it ruins the experience as they can clearly see, that is not my body.

With videogames it works because as you move, the body moves , the environment responds, and so it generates the immersion. With videos you have to actively pretend, and seeing a body that isn't yours, seeing another person not reacting to you, goes against your efforts.

Virtual Reality is just a name, and it is pigeonholing the technology, unnecessarily so.
Apple started showing the cracks when they called it "Spacial Computing" instead.

uioz

petermc How can a video ever be a simulation? It's like saying that watching the attractor screen on an arcade machine is the same as actually playing the game
Unfortunately, there's nothing to help people that are in the POVerty way of thinking because it's disordered illogical behavior.

pkloverx

Here's 2 examples of comments I've seen people make, who were turned away from VR porn.

1:
"I’ve watched VR porn before and all I can think is “That’s not my dick. This is weird”
2:
"Yeah, that whole disconnect of trying to think some other guy is you is definitely the reason why I'm more into watching lesbian scenes or solo scenes when it comes to VR porn.
Though I suppose after getting over the initial weirdness it has become a bit easier to ignore. Though looking too much down and seeing the long strip of dude leading up to the point of action is still something I try to avoid lol 😃"

pkloverx

Also, here is a popular post on reddit
Which gives a good view on more recent sentiment.

Especially this part :

" First of all, it was 500+ videos and every.single.one.of.them is as generic as can be, with the samey-looking bimbos  
  doing their terrible, terrible "ACTING" and the fake moaning and dirty talking in the same three god-damn positions!
 
 My gods the moaning and the dirty talk. It's like they have a written rule where in EVERY video there must be fake                                                     
 moaning and "dirty talk". I swear to you, every video in their catalog was like this:
"Oh yes, give it to me. You're soooo big".

"Ah, ugh, yes".
Proceeds to mimic some random facial expressions with the mouth open.
It looks fake, it sounds fake, it's a massive turn off.

"Proceeds to mimic some random facial expressions with the mouth open"
He is talking about POV. And that's what most POV is and what it's limited to.

eyelust

I like VR pov porn because I get to spend more time looking at the girl, instead of looking at someone guy bang the girl.

pkloverx

eyelust Solo videos are great as they are, nothing to say there, both flatscreen and VR 180.

pkloverx

Vrsumo2017 Yep, it boils down to that, let the studios have more freedom with recording the videos, bring in the big stars, OnlyFans accounts, big studios in flatscreen.
All they have to do, is add a VR camera next to the regular camera they already use to shoot.

Unfortunately in this small pond, every mention of NonPov is seen as a threat to people who like POV only, as for them the most important part is to simulate sexual intercourse and not break immersion with different angles.

The thing is, it isn't a threat to them, quite the opposite, by lowering the barrier to entry, more studios and more videos will come, and as the pond grows, there will also be more POV videos too.

As of today, VR PORN is basically a fetish.
And I think, it can be more than a fetish

SchnuppiLilac

pkloverx lowering the barrier to entry

Considering that there is PornoDanVR, what makes you think that there is a barrier?

pkloverx

SchnuppiLilac In the past 3 years I have only seen PornoDanVR trying and sticking with it.
So that's what makes me think there is a barrier to entry, considering that there is ONLY PornoDanVR who do both VR and flatscreen in parallel, even if with a very old camera and no consideration for quality at all.

A month or two ago, NEWPORNSTARLETS also started doing it, this time with a higher quality camera and a level of care towards it.
On their first upload, the usual POV flamewar happened in the comments, and the producer made it clear that he will continue recording NonPov because he likes it more and also to not get in the way of him filming his main flatscreen brand.

Another one is also JackAndJill, they have been recording them in parallel.

I can only think of these 3 studios who bothered experimenting filming in parallel and stuck with it.
2, now 3 flatscreen studios is a drop in the ocean when you look at the bigger flatscreen scene, so that's what makes me think there's a barrier, and the more start doing it the more cracks will show and new studios will join VR, breaking it.

But as long as VR is perceived as a simulation device, studios will not be interested going the extra mile to make perfect POV scenes sacrificing their existing and profitable flatscreen brand, to cater to a smaller niche market.
That's the barrier.

fuccaneer

Much has been made of the supposed "War on NonPOV" in this thread but its totally taken out of context. The vast majority of complaints are about mixing POV and nonPOV in aggressively unexpected ways. Its not a general bitch about the existence of nonPOV VR by itself. The hubbub is for when your "simulation" is abruptly interrupted with old man ass all in your face. Its the same kind of complaints that TeenFidelity gets with Ryan Madison always sticking his balls and butthole prominently in front of the camera--and that isn't VR nor POV.

There's plenty of studios out there that regularly produce nonPOV VR and some that use nonPOV intros. If there is some vast flood of complaints about those scenes, I ain't seeing it--but I don't spend a lot of time digging through 2 year old reddit posts.

I am a firm believer in expanding markets to cater to all tastes--I would have zero problem if some new studio came on here exclusively releasing nonPOV. But the general tone here that major studios are mistaken in focusing on POV VR...that they are some how going to die out if they continue with POV VR...that the revolt of this "silent" big crowd screaming "more nonPOV, bro" in virtually every other thread is somehow going to have a discernible impact on their bottomline is, to be nice, not very well supported with evidence.

pkloverx

fuccaneer But the general tone here that major studios are mistaken in focusing on POV VR...that they are some how going to die out if they continue with POV VR...that the revolt of this "silent" big crowd screaming "more nonPOV, bro"

That's not what the silent crowd is saying.
The silent crowd just thinks that all there is to VR porn, is POV, because that's what they are most likely to see when first trying it since it's the majority of content produced to date.

And so you get comments like this :
"I’ve watched VR porn before and all I can think is “That’s not my dick. This is weird"-

Also, I never said that if the big studios continue to solely produce POV VR, they are going to die out?
By doing that, they will survive as there are people who are into simulating sex.
However as the biggest studios/sites , they shape the image that outsiders and newcomers have of VR Porn.
And right now the image is that of a sexual simulation.
Sexual simulation is niche in the bigger porn scene, so a lot of people, the "silent crowd" , gets turned away and simply keeps watching their usual flatscreen scenes.

And since they are turned away, you don't see direct complaints here, you see them in the "outskirts" , where people talk about their experiences with VR porn, I shared some of their comments and a link to a reddit post.

pkloverx

fuccaneer "The vast majority of complaints are about mixing POV and nonPOV in aggressively unexpected ways."
Yeah I've seen that in the recent MixedPOV productions by SLR.
I can imagine that if I was simulating sexual intercourse with the girl, it would indeed be quite bothering to have a change of angles as that would ruin your efforts of simulating.

I was also pointing out that there's quite some toxicity and flamewars when new studios come and upload NonPov, a most recent example is "NEWPORNSTARLETS"
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/hot-blonde-fucked-by-photographer-at-audition-48980

Philthy181

pkloverx thanks for pointing out this studio and their non-POV content.
I've not seen it appear in the "New" content area, and I check this daily for all new posts 🙂

harigeharry

Never understood that wish to see nonpov VR. Like why would you want to jerk off to seeing a guy fuck a girl when you could be the one doing the fucking. Like those JackandJill videos do literally nothing for me, too bad cause they have hot women sometimes.

But I respect that everybody is different and has different things that get them excited. I do believe though that only a small minority of users is into that.

kurtis316

I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy I noticed and the misuse of words to promote their 'Cuckolding fetish' or 'Voyeur fetish' under the guise of 'Non-POV.' Then @pkloverx tried to define 'Mixed POV' as POV + Non-POV, which is clearly wrong.

Mixed POV simply means two different POVs, it could be Female POV + Male POV, Cuck POV + Male POV, Director POV, Cameraman POV, etc. Cuckolding has existed for a long time in flat porn by adding a third party person who stays passive, and what the OP referred to as 'Non-POV' is still POV, just shifted from the male who’s involved in sex to the male who’s watching. So many flat scenes like this GIF are out there, and John Strong simply shot the POV of the dude watching.

Also, let’s not forget the hypocrisy of @petermc, who constantly promotes his 'Anal fetish' under the banner of 'hardcore,' claiming that any scene without anal isn't 'hardcore enough.' That’s completely wrong. A scene can be purely vaginal and still very hardcore without needing anal, slapping, spitting, or whatever other fetishes you consider 'more hardcore'.

So both of you, stop misusing terms to mislead people. Man up, be straightforward and say what you want without any cover-up. Nobody is fetish-shaming anyone in a porn forum.

petermc

kurtis316 I have never once, in all of my years on this earth, stated that a scene cannot be hardcore if it does not contain anal sex so get your facts straight before putting words in my mouth. Strictly speaking any scene featuring explicit penetrative sex is hardcore pornography.

I often talk about vanilla/GFE vs harder scenes. Harder does not mean anal. It can mean any number of things. A blowjob only scene can go pretty hard. There are some very extreme performers out there that don’t perform in anal scenes.

Most people would class porn sites like Brazzers as vanilla and they regularly have anal sex scenes.

My issue that SLR shoot the same stuff every time (except for that crazy Rebel Rhyder scene that came out of nowhere). It doesn’t matter if they cast an extreme performer or an anal performer or a girl known for crazy deepthroat blowjobs, they just shoot the same vanilla scene every time and it’s gotten worse over time.

catflap

VR Cucking - best of both world

Some POV elements, some voyuer elements.