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  • VR Porn is perceived as sexual simulation

SchnuppiLilac In the past 3 years I have only seen PornoDanVR trying and sticking with it.
So that's what makes me think there is a barrier to entry, considering that there is ONLY PornoDanVR who do both VR and flatscreen in parallel, even if with a very old camera and no consideration for quality at all.

A month or two ago, NEWPORNSTARLETS also started doing it, this time with a higher quality camera and a level of care towards it.
On their first upload, the usual POV flamewar happened in the comments, and the producer made it clear that he will continue recording NonPov because he likes it more and also to not get in the way of him filming his main flatscreen brand.

Another one is also JackAndJill, they have been recording them in parallel.

I can only think of these 3 studios who bothered experimenting filming in parallel and stuck with it.
2, now 3 flatscreen studios is a drop in the ocean when you look at the bigger flatscreen scene, so that's what makes me think there's a barrier, and the more start doing it the more cracks will show and new studios will join VR, breaking it.

But as long as VR is perceived as a simulation device, studios will not be interested going the extra mile to make perfect POV scenes sacrificing their existing and profitable flatscreen brand, to cater to a smaller niche market.
That's the barrier.

    Much has been made of the supposed "War on NonPOV" in this thread but its totally taken out of context. The vast majority of complaints are about mixing POV and nonPOV in aggressively unexpected ways. Its not a general bitch about the existence of nonPOV VR by itself. The hubbub is for when your "simulation" is abruptly interrupted with old man ass all in your face. Its the same kind of complaints that TeenFidelity gets with Ryan Madison always sticking his balls and butthole prominently in front of the camera--and that isn't VR nor POV.

    There's plenty of studios out there that regularly produce nonPOV VR and some that use nonPOV intros. If there is some vast flood of complaints about those scenes, I ain't seeing it--but I don't spend a lot of time digging through 2 year old reddit posts.

    I am a firm believer in expanding markets to cater to all tastes--I would have zero problem if some new studio came on here exclusively releasing nonPOV. But the general tone here that major studios are mistaken in focusing on POV VR...that they are some how going to die out if they continue with POV VR...that the revolt of this "silent" big crowd screaming "more nonPOV, bro" in virtually every other thread is somehow going to have a discernible impact on their bottomline is, to be nice, not very well supported with evidence.

      fuccaneer But the general tone here that major studios are mistaken in focusing on POV VR...that they are some how going to die out if they continue with POV VR...that the revolt of this "silent" big crowd screaming "more nonPOV, bro"

      That's not what the silent crowd is saying.
      The silent crowd just thinks that all there is to VR porn, is POV, because that's what they are most likely to see when first trying it since it's the majority of content produced to date.

      And so you get comments like this :
      "I’ve watched VR porn before and all I can think is “That’s not my dick. This is weird"-

      Also, I never said that if the big studios continue to solely produce POV VR, they are going to die out?
      By doing that, they will survive as there are people who are into simulating sex.
      However as the biggest studios/sites , they shape the image that outsiders and newcomers have of VR Porn.
      And right now the image is that of a sexual simulation.
      Sexual simulation is niche in the bigger porn scene, so a lot of people, the "silent crowd" , gets turned away and simply keeps watching their usual flatscreen scenes.

      And since they are turned away, you don't see direct complaints here, you see them in the "outskirts" , where people talk about their experiences with VR porn, I shared some of their comments and a link to a reddit post.

        fuccaneer "The vast majority of complaints are about mixing POV and nonPOV in aggressively unexpected ways."
        Yeah I've seen that in the recent MixedPOV productions by SLR.
        I can imagine that if I was simulating sexual intercourse with the girl, it would indeed be quite bothering to have a change of angles as that would ruin your efforts of simulating.

        I was also pointing out that there's quite some toxicity and flamewars when new studios come and upload NonPov, a most recent example is "NEWPORNSTARLETS"
        https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/hot-blonde-fucked-by-photographer-at-audition-48980

            Never understood that wish to see nonpov VR. Like why would you want to jerk off to seeing a guy fuck a girl when you could be the one doing the fucking. Like those JackandJill videos do literally nothing for me, too bad cause they have hot women sometimes.

            But I respect that everybody is different and has different things that get them excited. I do believe though that only a small minority of users is into that.

            pkloverx thanks for pointing out this studio and their non-POV content.
            I've not seen it appear in the "New" content area, and I check this daily for all new posts 🙂

              I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy I noticed and the misuse of words to promote their 'Cuckolding fetish' or 'Voyeur fetish' under the guise of 'Non-POV.' Then @pkloverx tried to define 'Mixed POV' as POV + Non-POV, which is clearly wrong.

              Mixed POV simply means two different POVs, it could be Female POV + Male POV, Cuck POV + Male POV, Director POV, Cameraman POV, etc. Cuckolding has existed for a long time in flat porn by adding a third party person who stays passive, and what the OP referred to as 'Non-POV' is still POV, just shifted from the male who’s involved in sex to the male who’s watching. So many flat scenes like this GIF are out there, and John Strong simply shot the POV of the dude watching.

              Also, let’s not forget the hypocrisy of @petermc, who constantly promotes his 'Anal fetish' under the banner of 'hardcore,' claiming that any scene without anal isn't 'hardcore enough.' That’s completely wrong. A scene can be purely vaginal and still very hardcore without needing anal, slapping, spitting, or whatever other fetishes you consider 'more hardcore'.

              So both of you, stop misusing terms to mislead people. Man up, be straightforward and say what you want without any cover-up. Nobody is fetish-shaming anyone in a porn forum.

                kurtis316 I have never once, in all of my years on this earth, stated that a scene cannot be hardcore if it does not contain anal sex so get your facts straight before putting words in my mouth. Strictly speaking any scene featuring explicit penetrative sex is hardcore pornography.

                I often talk about vanilla/GFE vs harder scenes. Harder does not mean anal. It can mean any number of things. A blowjob only scene can go pretty hard. There are some very extreme performers out there that don’t perform in anal scenes.

                Most people would class porn sites like Brazzers as vanilla and they regularly have anal sex scenes.

                My issue that SLR shoot the same stuff every time (except for that crazy Rebel Rhyder scene that came out of nowhere). It doesn’t matter if they cast an extreme performer or an anal performer or a girl known for crazy deepthroat blowjobs, they just shoot the same vanilla scene every time and it’s gotten worse over time.

                  VR Cucking - best of both world

                  Some POV elements, some voyuer elements.

                  Why would I care how VR porn is perceived? Sex, whether virtual or simulated or real is personal and stays in my own home/room. I don't care how society at large views VR porn nor is it their business. The vid of some weirdo dudes thrusting in public with VR headsets on looks ridiculous and funny and holds no bearing and should hold no bearing on the subject of what sort of content a VR porn website should host or create. You could have just put a suggestion in the forums for "Hey guys I prefer non POV VR content" instead of setting up such a bad argument.

                    svanir "Why would I care how VR porn is perceived?"
                    Because that drives away potential new viewers of it, who are only presented with one option.

                    This reminds me of 360 videos, when VR videos first started the majority were 360 because of the simulation ideal, it HAD TO BE 360 "Because that's all VR is about"...

                    Anyways don't wanna get lost in that, you might not care, but the way outsiders perceive VR porn is keeping a lot of them away from it... And so it affects you with having less videos and options, that's all.

                    To give you an idea, there's currently over 7 million active VR users, and the Top video of the month on SLR has 51k views...
                    I do not believe one second that out of 7 million only 51k watch porn...
                    Considering around half of the population watches porn...
                    Lets say out of 7mil VR users, 2mil watched porn this week.
                    Out of 2mil, let's say 200k watched VR porn...

                    The other 1.8mil, watched regular porn.

                    My crazy assumption is that those 1.8mil, who watched regular porn... Well, they just want to watch porn. They don't want to pretend to have virtual sex , they just want to watch... And I'm not saying , if you watch POV porn you have to do that, I'm saying that's how it is perceived.
                    Those 1.8mil weekly VR owner porn watchers, know that VR Porn is a thing, but they aren't interested... Why, it's open for guesses, and this is my guess.

                        If lots of people wanted non-POV porn, the market would react to that. Views and likes are an easy metric and they suggest non-POV is a small niche. Sort the videos on SLR by all time popularity and look at where the non-POV scenes land. I have nothing against it, but to suggest that there's this huge silent crowd of people who align with your personal tastes is a stretch. There are many niches. I hate doggy, some demand it, some hate big / small boobs or tattoos or silicone etc and I think there's a temptation to think everyone else is crazy when their tastes don't align with your own. I'm certainly guilty of that.

                        Hopefully VR keeps growing and more diversity of genres, models and ideas can develop but I do believe the future is headed towards virtual sex in whatever form that takes - not just virtual voyeurism. Yet that will no doubt be a significant genre.

                          vrpicasso Numbers are important of course, but zoom out and see that there's millions of people who watch porn weekly but don't do so on VR... There's no vr porn video with one million views, the top video of all time from 3 yrs ago has 200k views.
                          The top video of this month from 3 weeks ago has 51k views.

                          So I'm mainly talking about that... A lot of people decide to watch porn on the flatscreen instead of VR, that's anyone guess of why, and mine is because they think all there is to VR porn is just POV, since it's what they are presented with the first time they might try to see it...
                          But I'll stop here cos I would just be repeating what I said in the thread.

                          7 years ago people thought 360 vr videos were the way to go because vr is all about reality simulation,and the majority of videos were 360...
                          The way you think of markets only makes sense in a bigger scale, where there is a lot of competition.
                          In such a small scale like VR Porn, where the top video of the month has 51k views, you kinda have to zoom out and see how many new viewers are coming, if the market is stagnating or growing. Main objective for all is more people coming to VR Porn, and the potential comers are presented with whatever is currently popular in our small pond.
                          If the pond is stagnating, the most popular is responsible and trying something new has the chance of bringing in freshenss.

                              pkloverx You can't draw conclusions about VR porn based on the metrics for all porn in general, which is mostly free and 2d because of price, convenience and accessibility. People aren't watching pornhub on their phone because they're turned off by the prevalence of POV porn in VR. VR porn is a tiny market because VR is still a tiny market, and even accessing VR porn once you have a headset is a technical challenge, requires payment (for anything watchable) and that entails not just money but privacy / security issues. I mean, I had to have a fucking conversation with my bank to get my SLR payment accepted, and another porn payment caused my paypal account to be closed down. Not to mention the massive amounts of spam I've been subjected to, due to lax security protocols. My Czech VR email address was compromised, then one time Virtual Taboo accidentally published the email addresses of everyone in their comments section who hadn't picked a user name. Only a dedicated wanker would go through that shit!

                              And even once you've figured out where to go for VR porn and you've paid money, you then have to master the interface and how to correct scenes which usually have production flaws that need fixing. The barriers to entry for the consumer, vs free 2d porn are just too high for mainstream uptake. That's why VR porn is niche, not because of the camera point of view.

                                pkloverx And now many studios are still stuck catering to the little big crowd that is into simulating intercourse, turning away people that are not into that, who just want to sit back and watch, as that's what porn is all about for billions of people on flatscreen.

                                You keep saying that because people watch 2d and that is a camera watching people have sex. That's what people want. 2d and VR are to completely different things. You can't look at your phone and have POV like in VR. It doesn't work period. So to say people don't watch POV in 2d means they don't like it is a crazy idea. They're different mediums.

                                pkloverx Those 1.8mil weekly VR owner porn watchers, know that VR Porn is a thing, but they aren't interested... Why, it's open for guesses, and this is my guess.

                                How about the idea that 1.8 mil weekly VR owners are not adults. Have you ever looked at the breakdown of the ages of VR headset owners?
                                Do you think new Quest owners are likely to be 50 or 15?
                                Just give up and say you like to watch people have sex and wish there was more videos that you liked.

                                    Honestly at this point i wouldn't mind if SLR shot 1 purely non pov scene just so we can all laugh at it being the least liked scene in the past 2 years. Just don't use an actress that doesn't already have 10 scenes on here because it would be a waste.

                                      HughMungus that would only prove though that VR is the circle jerk that he’s saying it is. That, by making only one thing, they’ve cultivated a small user base that only want one thing.

                                      Don’t get me wrong, I have no interest in non-pov VR scenes either but his wider point stands. Porn fans in 2d like a wide range of content from very intimate GFE couples porn right up to super extreme kinks and fetishes. By limiting VR to almost exclusively vanilla GFE scenes, you are generally only going to attract that small subset of porn fans who like that content. Then the circle jerk begins where you only attract people who like this type of porn and you continue to only make that type of porn to keep them happy and the industry stagnates.

                                      Now, I’m not saying we should be going to the other extreme either and having really extreme fetish porn. There’s a huge middle ground though like Interracial porn, gangbangs, anal, DP, BDSM/rough sex which have huge fan bases. Even just gonzo scenes where there’s no story, just porn performers having sweaty porn sex on camera. If you don’t cater to ordinary porn fans, you’ll never get them over to VR. You’d have to commit to it over a period of time too, it’s no good making one scene and then saying “it didn’t perform as well as we hoped”. It probably won’t be an instant hit as the people who like those scenes aren’t currently here in large numbers because you don’t cater to them. They’re not going to flock here and buy headsets for one scene. If they see that these scenes are being made regularly though and their favourite stars are on X promoting those scenes, they will eventually come across.

                                      I’m not sure how we will get there though as it would need someone to take that risk and make scenes that are initially unpopular and might not sell that well. You’d probably need a Brazzers or Vixen to really commit to a VR studio and bring their subscribers over rather than just dipping their toes in. Adult time have committed but frustratingly are just making the same stuff as what is already here rather than mixing up their content like they would in 2d porn.

                                          petermc Do you think people watching porn only like one kind of kink style and that is it? If VR doesn't have their one kind of kink they are out?
                                          Porn is the best study of supply and demand there is. If people want it then somebody is going to jump on it.
                                          If you only like NON-POV then there is 50 pages of it. That isn't enough to keep someone here?
                                          I think you either put on a VR headset and are blown away by it or I guess you aren't.
                                          For some reason people seem to believe there are lots of people trying it and just not liking it. Why do people think this?
                                          I think way more likely is that
                                          1: Tons of the headsets are sold to minors
                                          2: People aren't used to paying for porn so they either don't bring themselves to do it for lots of reasons, or they pirate it.
                                          3: They might have roommates or a wife so it is harder to hide it. Way easier to take your phone to the bathroom for 10 minutes.
                                          If you want more people to watch VR porn then everybody's time would be better spent on fixing these barriers

                                          None have anything to do with just refusing because they don't make their specific kink.

                                              rerun119 If you only like NON-POV then there is 50 pages of it. That isn't enough to keep someone here?

                                              When someone first tries VR Porn they are presented with intimate GFE since it's the majority of content produced now.
                                              That's the whole point. They aren't going to start searching for a needle in the haystack, there might be 50 pages of NonPov but that's out of a thousand.

                                              And so, you get comments like these :
                                              "I’ve watched VR porn before and all I can think is “That’s not my dick. This is weird”
                                              "that whole disconnect of trying to think some other guy is you"
                                              " First of all, it was 500+ videos and every.single.one.of.them is as generic as can be, with the samey-looking bimbos
                                              doing their terrible, terrible "ACTING" and the fake moaning and dirty talking in the same three god-damn positions!"
                                              "Proceeds to mimic some random facial expressions with the mouth open.
                                              It looks fake, it sounds fake, it's a massive turn off. "

                                              These are all comments of people that don't like GFE POV porn, but they see no other options! They think that's all there is in VR and rightuflly so, since that's what 90% of videos are like! You can't expect for people to go looking for what they don't even know is there!