Please implement a better and more sophisticated rating system

spacepirate2

dango789 no one would be pointing a gun at your head to give 100 scores per day 🤷‍♂️

i dont think anyone said anything about removing the ability to like or hide videos either

LordCrash

dango789 We already talked about that above, It should be a voluntary option. Has nothing to do with your wish to hide stuff though, completely different topic for another thread.

Also I don't really think that the majority of people here watches 10-20 videos each day. 😉

dango789

LordCrash If I can still just give a simple like without having to give all the scores, and it doesn't clutter up my UI then I'm all in support for it 🙂

doublevr

LordCrash last time we had it done years ago it wasn't really good. Some random numbers compared to factual data. Likes seems to be the best overall indicator

LordCrash

doublevr
Best overall indicator for what exactly? Seriously, there is ZERO valuable information to gain from a simple likes system. The only thing you can say based on that system is "Scene A was overall better perceived than scene B". But you can't say why that is the case. And the why is the important bit for further business decisons. Were the models well received? You don't know. Did people like the angles? You don't know. Was the setting great? You don't know. A scene could receive very little likes because it has technical difficulties although the huge majority of watchers like the models. Zero chance to make such differentation in a simple likes system. You could easily think that the models weren't well perceived while in reality there were a lot of different reasons for that.

Likes are the most random numbers compard to factual data...

dango789

LordCrash I have a marketing background - you'll be surprised how much insight can be derived from a simple like. That's why it's one of the primary metrics on Facebook/Instagram/YouTube etc. Top content creators are able to use likes to gauge what content their audience prefers and adjust appropriately.

You're right that there is a myriad of different reasons why people might like a scene, but when we analyse many different videos, we can pretty confidently isolate the effect of an individual performer/director/studio.

Let's take Agatha Vega as an example, who was cast in the top performing non-harem video in the past year. We want to determine whether she is a popular casting choice, or if the video mainly succeeded due to other factors.

To achieve this, we can analyse her videos from other studios. How well did her videos perform compared to other videos by the same studio, released around the same time? This would minimise any changes in camera tech, directors etc.

1) VR Edging

2) VR Solos

3) iStripper

Conclusion
While there is a little variation between studios (perhaps some videos weren't shot well etc), on the whole, videos featuring Agatha Vega consistently perform very well compared to other videos by the same studio, released around the same time.

We can use this same technique for other performers, or even types of performers (e.g. teens vs milfs, blondes vs redheads, natural vs performers with plastic surgery). We can also use this to isolate different settings, videos featuring certain camera angles etc.

One huge advantage of having a simple one-click feedback system is that you will get a lot more responses. And a larger sample size means more reliable data.

petergriff

I'm actually shocked we've found something you guys don't want to mess around with and change.

doublevr

petergriff you see 🧑‍🚒 🔥

justsomedude101

dango789 This is something that I and others on the team have talked about before here in the forum many times, but it's not info that's observable to users, so I can also totally see where some folks are coming from when they complain about the "like" button being seemingly the only metric.

Except that we have a lot of data when it comes to scene performance, and I mean...a LOT of data. I can't overstate how much of a data-driven company SLR is. And the correlation between "Likes" and every other metric is direct: a scene with more likes will (on average) have more downloads, more time streamed, etc. etc. etc.

I've seen people make great points about "likes" just being a tool to remind them to check out a video later, or that likes are given just based on nothing else but a first impression of the scene or based on nothing but the performers/cast, or etc. etc. etc. And that all certainly factors in, but it doesn't change the data. And the data says quantity of likes = overall popularity of a scene.

Not saying likes = actual success of a scene. That's a lot harder to gauge. Cost of the scene, new subscribers brought in, and a hundred other factors.

spacepirate

dango789 slr tracks every second of every video watched and that gives significantly better insights than a simple like button but it doesnt tell them WHY something is more popular than something else. to do that they have to draw their own conclusions based on the data and those conclusions can be totally wrong since correlation and causation are two entirely different things. being able to gather better feedback on the WHY is what a more sophisticated rating system helps with.

LordCrash

dango789 One huge advantage of having a simple one-click feedback system is that you will get a lot more responses. And a larger sample size means more reliable data.

Does anybody actually read what other people write? We already discussed above that a two tier system would be best. Simple likes for those who want to give a fast response, more detailed system for those who want to give detailed feedback.

There is ZERO argument against that actually.

justsomedude101 And the data says quantity of likes = overall popularity of a scene.

Nobody here actually denied that...

someoneX

dango789 Your system works for huge sites like Youtube, Facebook, etc. with a much larger dataset and not so well in a smaller environment where some girls only have a few scenes or if you don't want a bad director to film 20-30 scenes before you have enough data to find out that he does a bad job.

Another problem is that this only shows you the taste of the mainstream, but doesn't work to find what works for smaller groups or fetishes, where the dataset is much smaller. For example I hate typical US-Porn and pick my subscriptions by authenticity. If a studio/site wants to keep me as a user they have to provide that kind of content regularly and not just the stuff the mainstream likes. You won't find out about people like me with some standard database queries, that only check for overall popularity, but I would tell you what I like with a better rating system. You may find out about users groups you didn't even think about when you created your standard queries.

dango789

spacepirate You're right that the insights aren't as accurate as a scientific experiment in a controlled setting with a sample size of thousands. However, we can pretty reliably identify trends.

Imagine a performer with 20 videos from 5 different studios. Now imagine that in 18 of those 20 videos, the videos are among the best compared to other videos by the same studio, released around the same time. You can use either likes or total minutes watched as your metric.

While I wouldn't say it's scientific fact, I'd be pretty confident to suggest that she's a popular performer. Of course, there is a very slight chance that each of those 18 videos were an outlier. Perhaps, there just happened to be a better director who filled in that day and didn't shoot for the studio again. Perhaps they featured camera angles that they don't normally feature. Maybe the setting/storyline was much better than the studios' usual ones. While you can't rule it out, I would argue that it's unlikely to happen 18 different times out of 20.

If we extend this to genres and settings, we can be even more confident. There are probably thousands of teens vs milf videos that we can compare. For the same studio, same director, same camera angles, how well do teens perform when compared to milfs? What about if a scene features a nurse costume?

spacepirate

dango789 there are countless factors that contribute to how well a scene is liked and some are of greater importance than others. the choice of female performer is almost certainly the most important factor and you could easily draw reliable conclusions based on the number of likes alone for something like that. but for other less important factors like the best camera angle or distance for a particular position it may be difficult or impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions even with a sizable library of scenes and detailed tracking of precisely what people are watching.

LordCrash

dango789 While I wouldn't say it's scientific fact, I'd be pretty confident to suggest that she's a popular performer.

Of course you can identify the most popular perfomers, that's not THAT hard. Good luck with performers who haven't shot 20 scenes already. How do you measure the popularity of a newbie who has perhaps only shot one scene yet? Your system only works with a lot of comparable data and there often isn't that much data to begin with. Then your system simply fails completely.

So yeah, your system works for those who are already well established. Congrats for finding out that there are famous. Maybe that's the reason why they were often booked in the first place...

dango789

LordCrash That's a great question. Many of the highest performing videos are VR hardcore debuts after all, so it's important to be able to identify promising newbies. Luckily there are techniques for that as well.

1) Were they well received in softcore porn?
If they've previously shot softcore porn, how popular were they compared to other performers shot by the same studio? E.g. Agatha Vega and Eve Sweet both shot softcore videos prior to their SLR Original scenes. From those videos, there were already clear indications that their hardcore debuts were going to be hits.

2) Were they well received in 2D porn?
Have they previously shot 2D porn? How well received were they compared to other performers shot by the same studio?

3) How well received is their look in general?
You can use the method I previously outlined to get a sense of the characteristics the SLR audience likes. Teens vs milfs, blondes vs brunettes, natural vs enhanced etc. You can also look at the top performing videos and the types of performers featured. Then you make a judgement call - you take a calculated risk based their similarities to the best performing pornstars and general preferences of the SLR audience. After you release the video, you'll get data to confirm whether you made the right call.

doublevr

we are going to separate likes and dislikes for scenes and comments and show each separately.

I think we can implement advanced rating as it's an easy thing to do. It doesn't seem to get that many likes though

Rustam1990

and display the like/(like+dislike) %, easy to do I suppose. thanks!

LordCrash

dango789 You're missing the point. The question wasn't whether a certain girl is well received or not, the question is that a simple likes system gives you zero insight into what actually caused people to like or dislike a scene. So, you shot a scene with a new girl from whom you thought she would be pretty popular. Scene receives only medium likes range. So what's your conclusion based on the simple likes system? Was the girl not well perceived despite your market research in advance? Or was the girl well received but the scene was just boring? Or did the scene had technical difficulties and so people didn't like it despite liking the girl. Well, we just don't know.

It's a mystery to me why you defend the simple likes system so much when there are clearly better options on the table. A combination of the likes system with a more sophisticated rating system would be a win-win situation for everyone. It's simply non-sensical to be in opposition to that. Only argument against a system like that are the costs for its development and implementation. So I'd understand if @doublevr didn't want to do it. I don't understand that customers or fans are against it. If offers more while taking away nothing.

Aerowen

My main issue with the current likes are as discussed in a previous thread more that studios look at it and reject any criticism in the comments, because many people like it and few comment/complain so majority must be right. A single like-metric may give you the mainstream popular results but it also means it's the lowest common denominator result. If you want to target that it's going to be similar to TV where everything becomes shitty realityTV because that's what stats said is watched the most.

At least some better split-up way of giving a rating for different aspects of a scene would be great. At the basic minimum split up the regular likes for a scene and likes for each pornstar in a scene so popular models won't undeservingly cause high amount of likes as much on technically badly shot scenes.

Also I still believe a visual marker for having downloaded/watched a scene so people won't have to use the like-button for that would improve results. Pretty sure this is already tracked anyway.

And I agree with others here that some sort of additional feedback would be nice for scene specific things like story/direction, camera angles, lighting. Perhaps that way regular critique in comments will be taken more seriously as well. This is more to let studios know where to improve upon, not to determine what's the most mainstream popular thing.

dango789

LordCrash The dangers are:

1) We may end up making decisions based on unreliable data - a skewed data set with a small sample size.
To illustrate my point, look at the number of likes compared to the number of comments below:

Even the less popular videos consistently get around a hundred likes or more. But half the videos don't even have a single comment. The more complicated you make it for users to give feedback (e.g. by asking users to type a comment or by asking for 9 different scores per video), the fewer responses you will have. Your responses will also likely be less representative of the SLR community as a whole. It will gravitate towards those who spend the most time on SLR, or very likely mainly a few hardcore users.

And there lies the risk - and it applies even more so to new models with just one video. What if you cast a milf and you only get 1 response from somebody who's not into milfs? Or what if one hardcore user hates your storyline/costume/camera angle but most other people couldn't be bothered rating? Now you are pressured to make decisions based on a very limited sample size.

The alternative is feedback from hundreds or thousands of users. Better yet, if you have access to total time watched, you'll be able to see how well the new model/storyline/costume/camera angle performed across every single person who viewed your video.

This is especially a concern for smaller groups/fetishes. E.g. @someoneX isn't into typical US porn but instead prefers studios that shoot more authentically. But users who prefer typical US porn are going to rate someoneX's favourite scenes poorly, even though they're not the niche that the studios are targeting. So now the niche studios get poor scores and are pressured to move away from shooting the scenes that their audience likes.

Instead of relying on feedback from a few users who may not be into your niche, you can effectively filter out those who aren't your target audience using likes/total time watched. Those who aren't into foot fetish simply won't like/watch the video. But you'll get hundreds of people who do.

Then you can check how your videos compare to others that serve the same niche. If others consistently perform better, what are they doing differently?

2) It could clutter up the UI

Final thoughts
Anyway, you clearly have strong opinions about this as do I. I don't think there's much point discussing this further. As long as we take the reviews with a grain of salt and the UI doesn't get cluttered, then it's not a problem.

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