• SLR

  • Only 8% of users re-watch at least 60 sec of the same videos in 2 month

How about something different entirely with downloads?

For example :

Option 1 -
Day 1 you can download 1 file, Day 2 you can download 2 files.... and so on. If you stop downloading, the number resets to 1.
This means that people who download regularly are not impacted since after a month they can download more files than are even being produced, going back into the back catalog. Yet the people who pay for a 7 day subscription cannot choke the servers and do a smash-and-grab

Option 2 -
Netflix and other big streamers offer downloads for offline viewing, which eventually expire. This means you can have people download at high quality if they want, but you doing lose control over your content

Option 3 -
Issue people "download tokens" based on their membership level and let them download what they want, but obviously in reasonable quantities

This is what I came up with in 5 minutes.... I am sure there are 50 other options to look at and propose, vs. just going down to a stream-only platform. After all, if you genuinely are only planning on offering streaming, what is the point of investing in these high fidelity recordings and associated high end equipment?

Download limits are fine as they're. The whole 98 percent stream graph from doublevr, actuallys shows there is no download abuse. If the data says nobody hardly downloads, then this isn't about abuse but still an opinion.

In the business world you cater for customers or you don't. The ecosystem of pornsite customers: has 2 types of customers as one sharing the internet (can't stream) and the other people that have gigabyte of no share internet or are just rich with internet giga use. Not confusing or some idea of complicated knowledge.

If you squeeze the download allowence or stream only: then that screws the household internet share users and/or the low budget limited internet users. Not everyone is blessed with 'good internet' so that is your ecosystem.

If you don't mind losing customers that have shared internet or low internet data allowence - then so be it. Are you guys serious comtemplating finger pointing the shared internet users and low internet allowence users?

Pull the plug and see if you don't lose the customers that have not good internet.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but streaming is only done in DeoVR but a lot of people (including me) use a different player for downloads exclusively. That makes statistics that compare downloads vs streaming on DeoVR only pretty skewed.

    i been saying it over and over.

    producers NEED to have multiple 30-60second segments within a clip that appeal to different groups. not hard...just a little planning

    i have one clip i am approaching 100 uses on. virtually a 60second segment...so this thread is pretty timely

    i would TELL cam girls. WE either want to cum ON you or IN you. so think about that when you are making clips to buy.

    i like the fact you can SEE data like that. let's SEE what the hell you do with it.

    i would VENTURE to say 93.6 percent is something very close up. all the shit that is shot like 2d porn and far away? those producers might need another job in the acctg department or something

    argyle43 I’ll be backing away from this discussion

    No one has to back out of the discussion on my account. I understand how this looks from a user point of view. I'm a user myself on so many other platforms. Apology accepted. Though I never took it personally. ;-)

    When it comes to abuse, downloading the limit of what is allowed is not seen or threated as abuse by us. Meaning, the change in download limit is not because of abuse. The Fair Use aspect is something different. Fair Use, in this context is about other users.

    When it comes to revenue for the content creators. The more users stream content, the more, and more accurate they earn. - I did not say this is the, or the only reason for changes that are being made!

        Rakly3 how do you earn from streaming if it isn't live cam? There is a monthly subscription that is purchase. Do you sell individual stream videos? If not you rely on monthly subscriptions. Streaming does not affect monthly subscriptions except: if people visit the site and read if site does download or stream.

        Streaming does more download traffic than download itself. People come to the site see download and then join - customer.

            Hi Punksxc

            I said the content creators. The studios, the anime creators, scripters, etc
            The more you stream them, the more they get paid.

            SLR has contractual obligations towards the content creators. Accurate payouts are one of them.
            All content on SLR is still owned by their respective studio, scripter.... We do not own the copyrights for that content. This also means we can't just alter or correct errors in their scenes.

            Even a small part of the scripter's revenue goes to the scene studio because it's derivative work from their content.

            Punksxc Streaming does more download traffic than download itself

            This is a common misconception.
            Most users stream only. Most streaming users use less then 1 full scene download a month.

                  Rakly3 misconception? When you stream you download internet usage a video each time for watcinng the same video online. When you download you download once and only once - no misconception.

                  How does streaming the same porn film several times not overexceed a single download? A single download is one download and that's it. Streaming is downloading the same video except each time you watch. People with shared internet cannot stream.

                  You wonder why DRM is not popular? You guys are suggesting DRM. Tell how many sites that does DRM outside of Japan?

                      I think we are getting to the bottom of the truth. So the problem is not the downloads, nor the DRM. The problem is that they pay studios based on the number of times we stream, and if we download, they can't count the number of times we watch the movie.

                      Then your system is wrong, because it leaves out the people who are never going to use streaming, and who want to pay for the content to download it.

                      The solution is simple. Pay creators more for downloads than for streaming, assuming multiple viewings. Or set different plans for streaming and for downloads.

                      But eliminating downloads or forcing people to use streaming is NOT the solution.

                      By the way, I am not against putting a limit on the number of downloads per week.. There are people who abuse. I don't download more than 10 or 12 movies a week. The rest don't interest me. There has to be a balance between downloading everything or, on the contrary, getting frustrated because the limit is low and you can't download what you are going to watch.

                        Natch very well put!

                        Ok I know we have all poo-poohed the statistics, but they actually give you a justification for saying to your creators "a download only gets 8% more views than had it simply been streamed"

                        Perhaps if your partners feel there are video streams which are not being tracked, you can experiment (on a rotational basis) with making some of their titles stream-only , and comparing their performance to the same videos when you make them fully downloadable again?

                        I AM NOT SUGGESTING YOU STOP DOWNLOADS - just suggest you gather some proper A/B comparison datasets to give your partners a reasonable statistical reason for the "worth" of a download vs. a stream

                          LordCrash One issue with discriminatory, adult sites, and super heavy users is the issue of chargebacks. We don't want them and the risks rise when the dollar amount becomes higher. What's more, what is a fair price that one of these super heavy users is willing to pay? $150USD a month? More?

                              Rakly3 When it comes to revenue for the content creators. The more users stream content, the more, and more accurate they earn. - I did not say this is the, or the only reason for changes that are being made!

                              How much share of the traffic is for SLRO and maybe some other big hitters? I'd assume that most traffic goes towards the mainstream content and a few select studios. I always wondered who watches all that rather crappy amateur content...

                              Rakly3 When it comes to revenue for the content creators. The more users stream content, the more, and more accurate they earn. - I did not say this is the, or the only reason for changes that are being made!

                              Maybe, just maybe, you're simply using rather lacking metrics for payouts then. Just pay them something for downloads as well.

                                  ZENRA One issue with discriminatory, adult sites, and super heavy users is the issue of chargebacks. We don't want them and the risks rise when the dollar amount becomes higher. What's more, what is a fair price that one of these super heavy users is willing to pay? $150USD a month? More?

                                  I think you're thinking in too big extremes. There's imho nothing wrong with such limitations on the numbers of downloads for a day or a week. The point is that you give people options for the way they want to consume media, a way that fits to their living conditions, available hardware and available income. And I'd argue that the "normal" downloader is actually cheaper for SLR than a "normal" streaming user. It's not like any download user wants to download hundreds of scenes each day, especially not the ones you actually want to keep on your site and not the ones who only subscribe for a month to get as many scenes as possible for little money. I talk about the extremely valuable long term subscribers who download a few scenes each week, probably even those high quality releases they really want to watch and keep on their precious storage. That should imho be one of the key audiences for SLR beside the "casuals".

                                  So my concept would look like that (just to get the idea):

                                  • Option A: Streaming only for e.g. 20 bucks/month
                                  • Option B: Streaming + high quality downloads (high res, high bitrate, fast server) for e.g. 30 bucks/month

                                  The number of available downloads for option B could still be limited for a certain amount of time, e.g. 20 scenes a day or 100 scenes a week or whatever in order to limit the costs and risks for SLR. Just make it transparent to the users (maybe with a counter?) and I'm pretty happy that most(!) users, no matter casual or heavy hitter, would be pretty happy. Only those who are interested to get as many scenes on their drives for only a month's sub wouldn't be that happy but like I said, these aren't the key customers in the first place imho....

                                  And of course, there should be a revenue share for downloads for the content creators anyway. Simply give them a certain amount for each full download from a unique user or whatever. It shouldn't be that hard to have a mix revenue plan for both streaming and downloads. In my honest opinion, there's only a lack of will right now...

                                      People download the videos not just to re-watch, instead they download videos to satisfy the desire to hoard videos. This is similar to people buying games on steam but not play the games.

                                        wmfewmgkqoozlnzmnn This is not true. Not everyone who downloads, accumulates.

                                        I for example only download 12 or 15 videos a week of the hundreds that are published at SLR, and I don't save them all. And of the ones I do save, I watch practically everything again. There are days when there is nothing new interesting and you go back to your "collection".

                                        On the other hand, I personally sometimes cut and delete pieces of movies that I don't like, or I join several pieces of a particular actress to create my personalized movies. That's something that streaming doesn't let you do.

                                        For many people streaming simply means mediocre image quality, constant spying on what you do, waste of Internet data and energy, and a removal of rights and being able to be creative with the things you pay money for, because it's full of limitations.

                                          wmfewmgkqoozlnzmnn This is similar to people buying games on steam but not play the games.

                                          Not really. You don't have to download the games you buy. This is about actual downloads that require quite a lot of space on your hard drives. Not quite comparable if you ask me. But sure, there are people who download more than they watch, but imho that's rather the exception, especially given the space they require. Personally, I often download a selection of VR scenes each week, maybe 10 to 20 and after watching them I delete all of those that I don't deem good enough to keep while I only keep those that I really like and want to keep in my collection. And often I also keep the rather kinky and risky ones that might have been deleted next time I watch due to some fucked up new censorship regulation...

                                            wmfewmgkqoozlnzmnn The other two people didnt agree with you... but I am a hoarder exactly as you describe (I also have a recklessly large record collection)

                                                Some solutions I see here are just terrible, like 1 download a day and incremental increase only if you do it everyday..? Wtf who has the time to daily come to SLR to download? And why are we coming up with more timers, delays and limitations? Especially when apparently the downloaders are a minority? At this point I wonder if there even are any "heavy users" because it's not like ~150 downloads/month is realistically possible for most people (that's 5 times in a month 30 downloads every 6 days with current timer).

                                                I understand there has to be a monthly download limit so you can't just sign up for 1 month and download 1000 files, that's totally fine. My issue with the new limitations is the long duration of waiting time. I don't always have time for watching and/or downloading VR scenes sometimes for a week or 2-3. Which means for some months I only get like 30 at most. I don't want to be forced to do this shit weekly, it'd be much better if it was just a clear cut x-amount p/month, it was 300 with the 72h, now 150 but only if you're on top of it when the timers reset. In any case can we just let people download whenever they have the time please?

                                                LordCrash Option A: Streaming only for e.g. 20 bucks/month
                                                Option B: Streaming + high quality downloads (high res, high bitrate, fast server) for e.g. 30 bucks/month

                                                I really hope this doesn't happen as I don't see why we should have to pay extra for using less resources/bandwidth than the streaming users. Most VR sites just offer downloads, imo it's the streaming that's the premium thing on SLR in addition to the downloads every other site offers. If anything streaming is the more costly thing, maintaining servers, re-encoding for stream qualities, app development, etc.

                                                Personally it's already fairly pricey for me with the world economy going to shit recently everything has been getting more expensive. I've considered requesting the reduced fee thing they posted on the blog, but I'm already on a lower price from years ago so it's still doable for now, I think it'd probably get denied anyway lol.

                                                Rakly3 When it comes to abuse, downloading the limit of what is allowed is not seen or treated as abuse by us. Meaning, the change in download limit is not because of abuse. The Fair Use aspect is something different. Fair Use, in this context is about other users.

                                                This sounds odd, fair use in context about other users? How is downloading at all related to other users? The only way I can think of is network/bandwidth usage. But streaming uses way more so that can't be it... I really dislike how I keep seeing nonsensical reasons to justify increasingly annoying limitations.

                                                Rakly3 The more you stream them, the more they get paid.
                                                SLR has contractual obligations towards the content creators. Accurate payouts are one of them.

                                                THIS however... I think we're finally getting to the bottom of why all this is happening. I guess SLR doesn't have contracts with creators set up in a way that take downloads in consideration well enough? So rather than adjusting the contracts-issue the "downloading members" are essentially seen as the problem instead. Is that why we continuously get worse limitations, in an attempt to force more people to stream instead? If so this would mean it's a plain bully-people-towards-streaming campaign. That would be messed up but I think it fits the general attitude tbh.

                                                Regardless I don't understand why there's such a war on downloaders as your own data shows downloading members are a minority which would mean it's a minor or even non-issue. Even if all downloading members were to suddenly give up and go streaming it would be like a drop in the bucket kind of change.

                                                I hope SLR will come to the realization sooner rather than later that streaming at least for a subset of members will never be a good enough option regardless of whatever limitations you put on us to try and get us to switch. This isn't exactly like Netflix, some of us will just always want to have local files as well. Some want it just for favorite scenes, some for local streaming quality, using XBVR and other players, etc. Streaming is a nice addition to have but downloads will always be wanted as well, perhaps soon it can just coexist without the annoying timers.