petex67 eh, i dont think providing a raw file in any form is a good idea for several reasons

  1. I cant cut a part from raw video without converting it to other format.
  2. It is not stereo corrected and you wont be able to preview it in headset
  3. If i to correct stereo it will have to be exported to some format and it looses its sense as raw.
  4. If i to export raw with stereo correction to some format, in order to preserve the quality closest to raw i would have to use lossless and that is not playable in headset.

petex67 .mkv would only work in headset if its av1, h265 or h264 (which you get below but in mp4). but if you will manage to make lossless mkv and it plays in headset - let me know, perhaps also provide a test sample, i would gladly check it in headset

with that said
i here provide yall hevc + av1 + 8k max res samples from same scene and same 1 minute section so you can either compare it on computer or in headset
Master HEVC
Master AV1
8K_maxres_hevc
8K_maxres_av1

keep in mind post production can only influence the master file quality
the server transcoding quality aka maxres and other resolution are not the part of post production workflow

        Manny_S

        I tried out the 8K HEVC and Master HEVC on my Quest 3.

        As I suspected, even though still images might feel similar when the video is paused, but when it's actually playing, it's a stark difference.

        The Low Bit Rate 8K HEVC file feels like somebody applied a heavy Motion Blur Post Processing Filter. This is especially noticeable when there is a lot of movement.
        The Master HEVC is crystal clear on every single movement. It looks "High Res" if that makes sense.
        It's like watching a movie on YouTube vs watching in IMAX.

        I tried to play the AV1 files over my Stash -> Stash VR -> Heresphere stack but it refuses to play the original file and resorts to transcoding. I will try playing them directly loaded from the Quest 3's Storage a bit later.

        On another note, it's a damn fine scene mate! Good Job!

          Manny_S Hello and thank you for giving us this examples. And this will be some video! Looking forward to see this!

          Unfortunately I guess I'm not going to see this scene with the high bitrate as you already dont put those one available in the new slr videos (some say its behind a paywall of the paypervideo... i will never pay that much for a video).

          The difference is noticeable mostly how @petex67 says. When the person starts to move you can notice blurriness and out of focus on the smaller files. While on the larger files is very crispy and image flows a lot better. Its not a question of AV1 or H265, its a question of bitrate. 30 mb is just too old image.

          But dont get me wrong, 120mb bitrate is very good bu also too much I think. But in the middle term of this I guess it would make everyone happy (or at least most people). But as I said, for me 30mb bitrate is just not good quality to see.

          Thank you for all your work.

            Manny_S Very interesting comparison thanks! First of all, our mind is VERY good at playing tricks on us with this kind of comparisons so you really need to do them carefully and find a way to do a blind test and start up a video without knowing which one it is. If you already know which one that you're watching, your mind will most likely play tricks on you. Very important to realize!

            I only watched it on my AVP, not on my Q3. At first I focused on that skin discoloring on her left rib, it's a spot maybe 4 cm large. You have to watch carefully to even see it so I thought that might be a good test. I was amazed to conclude that there wasn't much difference between the original and the HVEC 8k. However the AV1 8k has a little less detail there, which amazed me too, since this is supposed to be the better compression algo? But I definitely see less detail with the AV1 8k version, while the HVEC 8k version actually seems pretty damn close to the original.

            So then I tried focusing on a different spot and this time I could see a difference between the HVEC original and the 8k. If you focus on the hair that falls behind her neck when she takes of the shirt in the beginning of the video, you'll see that the 8k version has way more dark/black there and that you can discern more details/colors in the original. There I could easily detect which version I was watching without even knowing which one I started.

            Still, I'm positively surprised by the quality of the 8K HVEC compression, the difference with the original is not as big as i would have thought. I do believe that camera/lighting/production quality plays a bigger factor than 8k vs original.

              Manny_S The 8K_maxres_hevc you posted is 28mbit/s but recent SLR vids like Pink me! are only 20mbit/s.
              I'm not sure if you are the one to ask this but what is going on here? People complain for years about the low bitrate and now SLR lowers the bitrate?

                I mean, just look at this. The compression artifacts couldn't be clearer on this Pink me! 20mbit/s file. Just look at the background and see the crappy gradients. How can anyone with a straight face pretend that 20mbit/s is enough?

                just compare this to ar porn that uses 75mbit/s almost 4! times higher (Tender Triangle)

                  I privately sent @Manny_S two images from the "Pink me!" video with the timecodes to compare with his version and the one on the site we can download. Indeed, like many others, I noticed that the compression was too strong and that it smoothed out the details specifically on this video. I'm not criticizing the difference between H265 and AV1, but this video where the bitrate is very low. The images I received are of better quality, but we did not align ourselves with the same time code, and it is difficult to be categorical without comparing two same images taken at the same time but from two different sources. I think this video and this model deserves to be aligned, at the very least, with other videos at 30 mb/s bitrate. The last video "Legal Cast: Agatha" is at 30mb/s

                  fenderwq And that example is from a PT scene where the background is mostly the same color (= less bitrate needed). The girls are taking up very small portion of the frame too (= even less bitrate needed). On a non-PT or multi-girl scene the quality loss would be even worse.

                      fenderwq Yeah wow that's an eye opener, that compression on the walls just looks horrible. I don't think anyone thinks 20 mbit/s is enough nowadays (well SLR themselves maybe). But yours is a good example. That whole scene looks kinda blurry anyway. And it's sad to see SLR is now at 20 mbit while the competition is at 75 mbit.

                        Have you guys read what people that aren't on the forum but leave comments under the video on the site are saying about the newest scene? Legal Cast: Agatha
                        Just a couple comments in case you don't read them

                        Cramming an 8K video that's over an hour long into 14GB is pretty bad. This is turning into a tube site.
                        FUCK THIS BULLSHIT, POST THE HIGH BITRATE VERSION YOU BASTARDS
                        I paid for this video on top of my subcription and I don't see the high-bitrate available... I feel super screwed, and not the good kind.
                        Apart from sharpening edges with that AI sharpening SLR uses, there's hardly any details on her face. No pores, skin texture, nothing.
                        SLR is going backwards these days after having just solved this earlier.

                        This comparison was done on a PT scene that already have less need for bitrate. Regular are even worse.
                        It seems like low bitrate is the problem to me

                        boudaba where did you take a screenshot from?
                        next time please make a a snapshot from some editing software or video player with timecode in format 00:00:00:00 (hours/minutes/seconds/frames)
                        consider the difference in left/right eye images and if you take a screenshot from one eye make sure to let me know which eye.
                        and attach a full screen snapshot along with the cropped zoomed version
                        took me some time but i think i found this frame
                        on my side its 01:01:22:30 right eye.

                        As i understand what we are discussing here is mainly the quality of the max 8k streaming file which is right now available for download, and not the master file.

                        i will repeat again just in case

                        Manny_S Streaming and all the possible resolutions. (that one goes after post production and we dont influence this)

                        Hopefully some conclusions will be made after this sort of comparison and the team will rethink server transcoding approach.

                        Now the only thing i can prove here is that the quality of the master files our post-production team produces is on the appropriate, acceptable, watchable level. With preserved as much as possible and enhanced details compared to the RAW footage.

                        Here is the side by side comparison of the RAW vs Master vs Max8K + your screenshot

                        a full body side by side

                        And finally even a 2 minute cut of each video, except for the raw (no re-encoding, pure ffmpeg copy stream)

                        HEVC master
                        AV1 master
                        MAX 8K (downloaded from SLR)

                              SLR keeps saying there’s no visible difference between their 8K 20mbit/s “max quality” version and the original… but still wants you to pay 7 euros for that removed original because it’s soooo much better. Which is it? Either there’s no difference, or you’re charging for something you claim doesn’t matter. Pick a lie and stick to it.

                              Also, AV1 is just a codec. Its only benefit is better compression, which is completely irrelevant when you’re comparing it to the original.

                              Anyone checked the SLR Originals upcoming scenes that have a trailer - The Horizontal Offset is way off (Approx -4) !

                              Quality control needs a bit of work i think - I'm guessing the full release will have these issues too.

                                petex67 Will you guys be making Master HEVC available for PPV?
                                I wanna make sure before I make a purchase.

                                If there were HEVC masters, I wouldn't understand why we can't download them right now like before. The man said this is because there are none. So if they come back, I trust they will not be PPV but part of the premium subscription package again.

                                    Silly-Sausage Some image distortion issues had been mentioned already in the comments of the Agatha scene when there was only a trailer. Was the full release okay? Haven't watched it yet.

                                        Hey Silly-Sausage
                                        just checked, and only trailer affected
                                        the scene itself is fine
                                        must be a mistake by editor who made trailer
                                        i personally check every scene, but not the trailers.
                                        thanks for pointing out
                                        will be fixed soon