POV vs Non-POV

fuccaneer

Yeah, it sucks that those people who can't get into POV VR don't get a bigger selection, but let's not kid ourselves here--studios will make whatever sells the best. "Chicken or egg" it all you want, but, if the market for non-POV VR was really there, someone would jump into it.

doublevr

fuccaneer no one knows to do it right. Give it a time

pkloverx

fuccaneer Whatever sells best yeah, look at how many views the top videos get then compare it to the overall VR population that watches porn.
(VR active owners around 7 mil, % of population that watches porn is a bit less than half, so let's say 2mil watch porn and use VR)

There is clearly a big percentange of people that are turned away. They know about VR porn, but they aren't interested in it, they'd rather watch flatscreen.

Why? That's anyones guess...
But when you put this perspective on you might start to see that "sells well" is very relative and putting it in this context... It just isn't

fuccaneer

doublevr no one knows to do it right.

OK. That may be worth exploring a bit.

Can anyone explain how to improve non-POV VR besides "moar, please"?
If there is something currently lacking (besides quantity), that would convince people to better appreciate non-POV, I would love to consider it for my own use.

doorsareopen

not sure what you mean by nobody knows how to do it right, as I've seen several nonPOV scenes on SLR that look great to me.

HughMungus

Non-POV kinda sucks IMO unless you're into cuckold stuff. There's nothing "virtually real" about sitting in a corner watching other people bang.

areBee

"Non-POV kinda sucks IMO unless you're into cuckold stuff. There's nothing "virtually real" about sitting in a corner watching other people bang."
HughMungus The second sentence contradicts the first. You are virtually really getting cucked. I think this is true of all 3rd person porn, including flat, people just don't notice because flat doesn't feel real.
First time I saw a voyeur VR scene I removed the headset within seconds because of the strong emotional response (being scared/uncomfortable) I had. It's similar to getting sexually assaulted I guess.
Now that I'm more used to it I can watch a scene like that and I can enjoy it if I'm in the mood. But it is inherently submissive to be made to watch the sex instead of having it yourself. And I usually want to fuck the female talent myself after a while so I check if there's POV content by her as well before I start so I can switch to that when the urge to become active gets too much.
I think the amount of voyeur VR is just right for the amount of people that want it. I understand that the (English) acting from Euro studios is not great and I'd actually prefer if they were just speaking their native tongues, as I don't need to understand what they're saying, emotion expressed in the acting still translates. Also true for POV actually.
But voyeur is just not large enough a market to sustain higher quality content. Just support what is there, like Jack & Jill.

doorsareopen

it allows you to see the girls from head to toe in action instead of a closeup of nipples in your face, arm pits and vr cosplaying the role of some random dude the whole scene, etc., nonPOV more akin to sitting a few feet back and watching a ballet dancer do her thing, pornographically speaking, and as many have said literally like watching the porn we've been watching for decades but it's more like you're there... what's not to like? In the real world yeah, I'm sure most people prefer 1-on-1, but this is erotic escapism, and not like you have to go shouting from the rooftops what you like on VR, nobody will know. regardless if it's pov or nonpov it's not your dick in the scene so unless you can transcendental your way out of conscious thought that fact will always be present. i think there is room for both and think a nice variety would help vr grow as not everybody is into the same thing.

InfiniteFun

...if i had to put my finger on it, i'd say i like watching girls in VR, but not men specifically, though i don't mind if they don't get in the way. So that checks POV, and all the 'just girl(s) on camera' stuff. Non-POV with male talent then really comes down to specifics, i quite like a big orgy (equal numbers M/F) where the girls are up front and centre (especially if the put the blokes in masks), not turned on by being more intimately involved with a scene that concentrates more fairly on both participants, much less so for MMMF or wtvr, where it's just constant ugly sweaty hairy man bodies obstructing the actress!

However, watching in 2D i'll watch any number of gentlemen rodger some poor lass senseless, but not in VR, sadly. i think it's something to do with the immersive layer? When i'm watching in 2D i can 'project' my empathy onto any actor, the males or females if i choose, in effect i can 'be' the actor in a 2D quite easily. i find it non-obtrusive. It's how you empathies with any character when watching TV, it's just what one does. You just exist in the mind's eye within the frame.

But in VR there's an added level of intimacy, which brings me just a bit too close to the action for me to enjoy watching some chap who looks like the local builder getting his rocks off. Maybe if i was watching Henry Cavill, i'd be more interested, but to be fair, they don't hire male talent for their boyish charms and good looks. Once you've cut the face off it's okay, i can make that body mine, but leave some stubbly chap in there looking at me... eww, no thanks.

Just thinking about the masks again, that actually helps a lot, if someday wants to bring more people into non-POV that might be a way in, just put a spandex hood on the poor chap, then we can all project easier, i guess.

Have no problems watching tranny's fucking ladies, they always look good. i do love watching BDSM and fetish non-POV, but that tends to put the girl front and centre, and of course that shit turns me on, so i'm much more engaged. Also, the men tend to keep most of their clothes on when they're doming, so less hairy ass in your face.

Just kinda how i feel, i think there's plenty of room in VR porn for endless non-POV and POV and wtvr comes next, so bring it all on, there's so much more to learn...

alphaRonaldo

Even though I love both, and would wish for more non pov content, I see some difficulties here.

Keeping it non-pov, the directors prefer to keep the cam moving which is great tbh but is limiting with the cameras and equipment they could choose. That's why a lot of lower quality 5k and 6k content is produced.
Those using toys might not prefer the non pov view. Have noticed this quite often in comments.
Moving cam needs perfect stability. A few studios do it right but quite often they do mess up. And it's another piece of equipment that eats up their budget. Most have this jitter or sudden movement, that would throw off a lot of users.
Lens focus/sharpness is a big issue even for fixed pov scenes. Heck SLRO had its fair share of issues.
For fixed non-pov, the models keep moving a lot with positions, etc. It gets tricky for the director to keep everyone in focus i guess.
Gets worse with focus issues if it's a moving cam non-pov scene.

Studios are picking the low hanging fruit here, so understandable seeing so much of pov content.
Give it time, it'll grow as the vr space grows.

Vrsumo2017

alphaRonaldo Those using toys might not prefer the non pov view.

I watch nonpov with a torso, dreamcam channel...watching them fuck as I fuck my torso, it's like we all fucking 🤷‍♂️

I enjoy it all! Pov nonpov! 🤷‍♂️
I'm ready for the freakoff parties! "Orgies"

Yall never seen them short vr films in amazedvr on gearvr? I use to watch these and think wow if they had some sex in these films would be great.

Bro eventually, or they doing it now but more movies will be made in vr, "nonpov"

Reps, that's how nonpov improves, gotta just film it, it'll get better as we go. 👍

Jaysmart1432

I appreciate all your comments. I totally understand that there are many different preferences and different strokes for different folks. However, why don't the studios realize this and why do they continue to focus on the same content????? There's plenty of room for both POV and Non-POV!!!

I happen to think that VRixxen/Vroomed does a really good job with Non-POV and shoot some incredible close angles that no other studios have mastered. However, the quality of most of their actors just do not match up..... and they use the same few people over and over. Imagine we had those same scenes but with hot english speaking porn stars!!!!

rerun119

Jaysmart1432 How do the numbers stack up against the POV scenes they shoot? That will be the big decider for the studios

Vrsumo2017

Jaysmart1432 There's plenty of room for both POV and Non-POV!!!

Slr mentioned years ago they were thinking about filming nonpov as extra clips from scenes they produced, so far they only did 1 😔
Hopefully we can visit this idea again, I was looking forward to it too!

Hey I bet these directors have a stash of nonpov content from scenes they produced, probably have bloopers and all kinds of extra content that I'd like to see. I'm pretty sure there's a huge vault, lol upload it! It's content!

One rule I'd like to suggested for non pov, is back me up, the close ups are fine, but don't keep me up close for to long, especially during the whole sex action, also don't worry about blurriness if u backing up to far, and ur worried it's going look blurry, don't worry, just scoot me back enough where you fill its good and take 3 more steps back again, lol...oh and less camera movement when walking with cam filming sex, it's OK it's fine you move around, just do lil less during sex.

Also when doing any up close oral, upclose sucking tittys,, ass eating, upclose arm pit munching, kissing get some shoots in close as possible

Wonder what it be like to film nonpov but koalavr style with headcam on, I'd like to see that one day.

More nonpov!
Tadpole does great non pov and books familiar vr hotties too, send them some beefy studs bro to wreck shop!

Pornodan does good work too but they refuse to get better camera for better quality.

There's actually quite a bit nonpov but its lacking booking our favorite vr pov hotties!

Bro I wonder if directors like the idea of producing more non pov, probably gives them room for more creativity. 🤷‍♂️

I'm here for it! Nonpov!
Yall see me saying more pt or talking about pt like i use too? Pt guy 🙋‍♂️ lol 😁 ptgang 🤜🤛, no cuz there's so much of it in a short time, do more nonpov, and I'll 🤐 lol

More nonpov will be fun! 🎉🥂

InfiniteFun

areBee But it is inherently submissive to be made to watch the sex instead of having it yourself.

...yea, that's a good way of putting it. If non-pov wants to be as popular as POV, they need to address that issue. The easiest way to do that is to depersonalise the male talent by putting them in masks (as i points out somewhere else). i've no problem watching sweaty bodies, i get completely turned off by the manly faces.

If SLR wants to shoot some 'test' non-pov, i suggest you depersonalise your males. Allow us to project ourselves onto them. VR is too immersive to ignore some chap making eye contact with you when you're cracking one out...

Jaysmart1432

doorsareopen
Well said!! It's a shame the large studios arent listening.

pkloverx

The biggest factor for my enjoyment, is how natural/real the performance is.
I don't like when it feels cold and artificial, no matter the perspective, no matter the actors... That's why before VR, I didn't watch many professional vids, I always went to amateur/homemade videos on the hub and other sites that were recorded by real couples and that showed real passion...

Thing with POV is it limits this, as in order to record POV, the male actor has to lay like a mannequin, not interacting much, there is always something separating them in the middle.

So, in Non-Pov, the actors have a chance to display real passion and have fun, which is what i look for... But it's not a guarantee, there's lot of terrible performances in NonPov.

The upgrade I look forward to with NonPov, which we are already starting to see a little bit of, is real couples having fun, videos with that "Homemade" vibe... Here's two recent examples :

https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/cuckold-experience-hot-wife-gets-creampied-by-a-latin-stud-51991
and
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/husband-perspective-hotwife-and-friend-hook-up-with-college-buddy-51298

I think NonPov is better suited for "Homemade amateur content" because it's just easier to record and doesen't get in the way of the couple, just like in the beginning of the homemade porn boom, couples just bought a camera and set it to a good enough angle and performed... And it absolutely dominated the porn scene for years to come because people value authenticity.

If I had the money to make a campaign to grow VR porn, I would go to onlyfans solo models and couples and invite them to SLR, giving them a camera for free, making it as convenient for them to record as possible, and NonPov is more conventient and easy than POV, you can even record flatscreen+VR in parallel like what cam models do...

I think there is a lot of untapped potential in VR porn because of how it is currently perceived by outsiders(simulation device). Just like VR videos used to be needleslly stuck with having to be 360 a few years ago, because of that same simulation ideal.

Thankfully we left part of that in the past, and moved on to high quality 180 degrees videos, and now 360 are much less popular. If VR video watching goes mainstream the same thing might happen with POV/NonPov, not just in porn but in general.
And in a small way I can already see it when I look at DEOVR SFW videos, the creators there already see this coming, they record 180 videos in a very similar style to regular flatscreen videos you would see on youtube.
However as all technology goes, porn is usually the spearhead, and so its VR Porn responsibility to bring in more people to try VR videos in general.

Jaysmart1432

pkloverx
I agree with everything you said and those 2 scenes are definitely from the best!! Hope they make more!!

pkloverx

Majority VR porn POV videos (what we have now)
= Outsiders perceive VR porn as a simulation device, instead of watching a performance you wear it and actively pretend you are having sex with the images you see.

Majority VR porn NonPov videos (what we don't have now)
= Outisders perceive VR porn as an upgrade to flatscreen, you are still watching but with depth and higher quality.

My crazy theory is that the majority of people that watch porn, just want to watch porn... They don't want to have sex with the video.
And I'm not saying that when watching POV you have to do that, I am not judging POV,
it's just how it is perceived by outsiders, since it's the most produced and advertised.

Jaysmart1432

Ok guys. This just dropped and looks promising from the preview. Shes definitely hot and speaks English!! Let's all watch this a give feedback!! The US studios have a LOT to learn.

https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/casting-with-a-splash-51910

InfiniteFun

Jaysmart1432 ...yup, i'm just completely put off by that scene, but only by one thing, his face. She's hot, his bodies hot, he's got a lovely cock, but urrgh! He has a face! Goddamn it.

@doublevr ...how about an AI mask that obscures the face of male talent in non-pov? Obviously, it could go completely wrong and look ridiculous. Depends on how faithfully the AI can map to the profile. A good fit would avoid everyone looking like they have Mr Blobby faces, might work quite well. 200IQ move, you offer the consumer the opportunity to scan and upload their face, so they can watch themselves fucking. ULTIMATE PROJECTION! You can't cuck yourself...

xD

rerun119

pkloverx (VR active owners around 7 mil, % of population that watches porn is a bit less than half, so let's say 2mil watch porn and use VR)

There is clearly a big percentange of people that are turned away. They know about VR porn, but they aren't interested in it, they'd rather watch flatscreen.

How do you just jump around with these numbers? How do you know "There is clearly a big percentange of people that are turned away. They know about VR porn, but they aren't interested in it, they'd rather watch flatscreen."
Have you ever considered that maybe just maybe that a lot of the people that buy VR headsets are kids? hmmm.
It might be hard for a 14 year old to get his parents CC to get a SLR account.

Big conspiracy people love to look at one number and then cram it into their idea of what they want to be true.

SchnuppiLilac

Vrsumo2017 Tadpole does great non pov
Vrsumo2017 Pornodan does good work too

Jaysmart1432

Tadpol & PornoDan doesn't do it for me. Its too amateurish, poor video quality, they don't shoot close up and I simply cannot watch overweight people whether it be male or female performers.

fuccaneer

There is some strrrretttccchhed logic here. Let me help you out with some view stats.

Great day with Violeta POV 6.6k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/great-day-with-violeta-46641
Sex with Violeta from another point of view NONPOV 3.9k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/sex-with-violeta-from-another-point-of-view-46680

Sex In The Car And Nature With Daruma POV 8.9k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/sex-in-the-car-and-nature-with-daruma-46348
SEX WITH DARUMA FROM ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW NONPOV 4.7k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/sex-with-daruma-from-another-point-of-view-46433

Blowjob With Ice Cream And Mitzi X POV 7.1k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/blowjob-with-ice-cream-and-mitzi-x-51813
Blowjob With Mitzi From A Different Perspective NONPOV 3.4k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/blowjob-with-mitzi-from-a-different-perspective-51950

Merry Anal Christmas Sex With Paula Shy POV 6.9k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/merry-anal-christmas-sex-with-paula-shy-51151
Christmas Anal Sex From A Different Perspective NONPOV 3.5k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/christmas-anal-sex-from-a-different-perspective-51189

Christmas sex with Mitzi POV 12k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/christmas-sex-with-mitzi-50803
Christmas Sex With Mitzi From A Different Perspective NONPOV 3.8k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/christmas-sex-with-mitzi-from-a-different-perspective-50859

Ten to One (POV) - Surrounded by the Hottest Stars in SLR Original Harem Scene POV 387k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/ten-to-one-pov-27972
Ten to One (Non POV) - Harem Reverse Gangbang 3D Porn Voyeur NonPOV 79k views
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/ten-to-one-non-pov-27387

You're welcome. Now you can concretely point at comparable scenes and say with some support that POV views vs nonPOV views is anywhere from 2:1 to 5:1. That is evidence with stats to back it up. It shows that nonPOV is not an insignificant market. And lends some support for the argument for dual versions of scenes.

Jaysmart1432

fuccaneer
This proves my original point. In most of these scenes it's a 2:1 ratio so based in this, for every 2 POV scenes there should be 1 Non-POV. Unfortunately this is not the case.

Additionally, these scenes are mostly done with a POV mindset and the Non-POV is more of an afterthought. If it was shot to get the best Non-POV angles like what Vroomed/Vrixxen/Immersex does i bet it would do a lot better than 2:1.

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