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Will65 No, that's totally fair. You make a great point.

I'm not really speaking on behalf of the company so much as speaking as a member of a community who also is making content for the community. And as such, I'm definitely not saying constructive feedback/critique/etc. are invalid.

Regarding that feedback thread, I do think there's a difference between

"Does this dress make me look fat?" "Yes."

and

"Hello. That dress makes you look fat."

Solicited vs unsolicited feedback hits different. Anyone is perfectly free to use the second approach. I'm just trying to have a dialog about how maybe we can achieve common goals another way.

(PS - I feel like you and I have come a long way towards understanding each other in this thread and I'm grateful for that. My initial response was an attempt at what I thought was solicited feedback. I hope that's clearer now.)

    Hunky-Dory listen to what people actually want rather than interpreting what they want from data.

    My goal is to attempt both, but sometimes the two conflict. It's complicated.

    But I take your point. I should listen more. I'll work on that.

        Will65 I could say that we have way too many blondes, and that I hate blondes. That is also a comment on appearance, and could be taken as "derogatory".

        No, it couldn't. Don't act like language was completely arbitrary since it isn't.

        The whole rest of your post is pointless since you obviously don't understand that it's not about what you say but how you say it. Nobody says that you're not allowed to criticize things but you should watch your language because offensive language can actually hurt people. For example, don't call people names and don't put them in derogatory categories. You can voice your feedback with the very same meaning without using derogatory language. It's as simple as that and I think deep within you know that as well.

        It's also pointless to continue with pointing the finger on me since I already admitted my mistake and took respective action. And by the way, I would probably tell Demi in a one-on-one conversation in real life that I didn't like her tats and that imho they're pretty ugly if she asked me for feedback on it (of course only hypothetical). That's imho honest feedback although I admit that it could also hurt her (it's one of my personal issues that I'm often way too direct without thinking through what the other person could feel but I'm working on it). That's why I deleted my post after thinking it over. I wonder though whether you'd call CJ "plastic model" in a personal conversation...

        Anyway, since there's still zero self-reflection on your side, it's pretty pointless to continue this conversation. Obviously you have zero intention to improve your behaviour or even accept that there was something wrong with it in the first place.

            Hunky-Dory over analising user responses and using tbat as data feedback rather reading the room

            I truly don't see the distinction between "over analysing user responses" and "listening/reading the room". The two seem synonymous to me.

            As an example, for my PMVs, I get comments that they're too aggressive and use too many effects/cuts, and I get comments that they need to be more aggressive with more cuts. They're literally taking opposite positions at the same time. I listen to all of them, eagerly, but the only way to resolve that conflict is to look at the data and see which style more people enjoy. I can't make everyone happy, but I can try to make more people happy.

            That's really the best I can do.

              Hunky-Dory

              I did not read the whole thread but data is the most effective way to get feedback what people like. Not even 1% give feedback in the forums. That is a stupid way to make decisions that have an effect on all.

              Mutiny moderation of videos is most of the time a waste of time. How about you guys implement that at "-5" votes, you get an automated review request. This way you will catch the majority of tasteless comments quite fast.

                    Padarak How about you guys implement that at "-5" votes, you get an automated review request.

                    I don't know anything about how the dev team would prioritize/implement that, but I think it's a swell idea.

                    @justsomedude101?

                      Mutiny It's just...taking a negative position against content many others are seemingly happy consuming...I just don't see the benefit. It just feels futile, like misspent energy, IMHO.

                      You have a good point there. I was giving negative feedback to a lot of scenes in the past but in the last few months I mostly only comment on stuff I like and just ignore the content I dislike. I mean, it's pretty pointless anyway and I actually don't want to spoil the fun for others. Sometimes I fall back in old behaviours, especially when it's about stuff I really looked forward to or when something actually pisses me off enough, but most of the time I'm able to resist writing negative comments. Like you said, it actually makes much more sense to give positive feedback and to try convincing people of the stuff you actually want to see. I mean, the recent "communication effort" here in the forums is the best proof for it with Alex Nash, VRfanservice and you actually asking for ideas and suggestions for upcoming scenes. That way you can really have an impact on the direction of the site or at least certain scenes which is a lot more worthwile than writing negative feedback in comment sections with little to zero impact other than pissing other people off who like that content.

                        Hunky-Dory again apparently i insulted you,

                        Correct.

                        Hunky-Dory You're poco loco and little insane mate

                        Correct.

                        Hunky-Dory Everything you say shoud be take with al little bit of salt .

                        Correct.

                        Hunky-Dory I don't like you

                        The data does suggest this.

                        Hunky-Dory you manipulate users opinions !

                        That's called "having an opinion and saying it out loud to people"

                        Hunky-Dory You're a bad peson

                        Sometimes, though I try not to be.

                        Hunky-Dory and shoudn't represent SLR.

                        The data suggests otherwise.

                                        petermc it’s very rarely, if ever, personally attacking anyone.

                                        Complaining about excessive casting of a type of model is not personally attacking anyone. legit not sure why people can't get that. You're arguing about something that didn't happen.

                                        This whole thread is nothing but a straw man.

                                            LordCrash I wonder though whether you'd call CJ "plastic model" in a personal conversation...

                                            Of course not. That's why I didn't direct the comment at her, or criticize her for her choices. The comment was pointed at the company and casting director who chooses types of models. I'm not even convinced that the models read these comments. If I were in their position, I sure wouldn't.

                                                Will65
                                                "The plastic parade continues. Yuck."

                                                Perfectly fine post, very well written with no intention to make any trouble or to piss people off. Surprisingly 21 people took notice though and downvoted this very thoughful comment of mine although it was never meant to be divisive in any way. I was only talking directly to the site owners, politely asking to shoot more content with all natural girls and less content with girls with augmented tits.

                                                LOL 🤣

                                                Dude, just finally fucking admit that your post was always meant to stir trobule from the start and that you wanted it to be pretty divisive and offensive. What's so fucking hard about that? You're too proud for that? Come on...

                                                You could have easily written something like "I wish SLR would shoot with more all-natural girls in the future again. I'm personally not into girls with heavy augmentations." That would have been perfectly fine and I guarantee nobody would have deleted it and probably nobody would have even downvoted it, at least not as many people.

                                                So yes, this thread is a straw man, but a straw man you created yourself. 😉

                                                    Will65 Of course not. That's why I didn't direct the comment at her, or criticize her for her choices. The comment was pointed at the company and casting director who chooses types of models.

                                                    If you stand besides a girl and tell the guy in front of you that the girl besides was a plastic model and that this whole plastic parade was yucky you're still offensive and insulting to the girl. It's totally irrelevant to whom you direct your words when saying stuff in a public space. You could maybe voice such things in a private e-mail which can only be read by you and the recipient but this is a public forum and the model could very well read the stuff you write. And it's not up to you to decide whether she should do that or not. You should rather always act like she surely did - which is pretty much the official guideline for the comments section.

                                                    Like I said multiple times before now, it's only your tone that's off. not the actual content. You could easily give your feedback in a less offensive tone but for whatever reason you simply don't want to do it and you don't want to admit that your tone was off from the beginning. So we're going in circles here...

                                                      LordCrash admit that your post was always meant to stir trobule from the start and that you wanted it to be pretty divisive and offensive. What's so fucking hard about that?

                                                      Easy: It isn't true. You're free to interpret however you like, but it doesn't change my thinking or intent at all.

                                                          Will65 I honestly wasn’t referring to you with this although I can totally see why you think I was, apologies for any confusion.

                                                          There was a comment made along the lines of they won’t listen to a couple of people criticising the scene if thousands of others liked it. I didn’t even see your now deleted post. I was just talking about how being critical can be helpful to some even if lots of other people like the scene but that I try to avoid it being personal, more technical. If it’s a personal thing that I’m not attracted to a certain performer, I just skip the scene usually. I won’t comment on it.

                                                            LordCrash youre trying to make a mountain out of a molehill here. the essence of the original comment on the scene was "i dont like fake, i like natural" and im sure thats clear to anyone who read it but for some reason we have people getting hung up over the exact words he used and arguing over semantics. if you dont like what he said just downvote and move on.

                                                                spacepirate
                                                                Actresses who shoot VR videos and have them hosted here shouldn't be subjected to hate and nastiness. That isn't good for anybody, its toxic. VR is still a very niche market, actresses don't need to participate in VR to make a living. It's optional for them, and honestly looking at how its shot, its kind of a pain in the ass compared to a normal shoot. A bunch of toxic assholes aren't doing us any favors getting more girls to come into this space. The basic comment Will65 made was that the actress was disgusting, not that he preferred other types of women. We don't need that here, we don't want that. That type of comment hurts what we all want in the long run.

                                                                If you like different types of videos, that's reasonable, that's fine. The way to get those videos made is to support and ask for them. Spreading negativity and hate towards women that fall outside of your personal taste is not the way to get more of the videos you like made. These actresses are people, even if you don't like them. Its not a molehill, its basic decency. I'm fine with some moderation to keep the comment section from being a cesspool of people insulting the actresses.

                                                                    spacepirate
                                                                    LOL, the OP made a mountain out of a molehill by starting this whole thread instead of simply accepting that he made a mistake and got a slap on his fingers for using divisive and offensive language, whether it was intended or not. And yes, language is important since it can actually hurt people.