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LordCrash Body modifications are a choice that affect appearance, which is what the models are selling. I could say that we have way too many blondes, and that I hate blondes. That is also a comment on appearance, and could be taken as "derogatory". I could comment that we have way too many MILFs, and that I don't appreciate older women. That is a comment on appearance and personal factors, too. It could be taken as "derogatory". It shouldn't be, though, because I am commenting on classes or categories of performers who profit on those aspects of themselves. When you makes your body and appearance your product, criticism of that product is much more in-bounds than it is for other people.

Your post was more egregious than mine, since you singled the actress herself out for criticism, saying that she could be hot, if not for her ugly tats, and that she was giving the finger to mother nature. Your post was HIGHLY personal, while mine was not. Had you said, "I'm tired of all the tatted up models. Yuck." I'd be on your side, siince you were criticizing the preponderance of a certain type of model in casting decisions. Instead, you took the model to task, personally and specifically, for her choices.

i've been over this point exhaustively because it is important. If all criticism of model appearance is prohibited, we have no way of explaining to the company why we dislike a particular type of model. It's more than a bit ridiculous, especially in light of the horrible - and directly personal - comments I see users make here every day.

      Mutiny I can see the position that youre trying to take, but your boss asking people directly to explain why they don't like certain scenes, and recieving exactly the type of feedback that I was banned for really undermines your point. It's clear that the company DOES want to know what we don't like, but apparently it is only permissible in response to a direct question. Otherwise, the mods would have to delete/ban half of the bosses own thread and replies. Instead, they will crusade in comments when they come across a user they already don't like.

      Policy is only effective when the whole organization, top to bottom, practices with the same degree of integrity. Otherwise, it just looks like petty exercises of power to serve personal preferences.

      And we haven't even gotten to the hypocisy of banning someone for a 5 word not-personally-directed comment about casting directions while the boss has a well-deserved reputation for viciously and hyper-personally insulting paying customers he does not agree with.

      What was that bit about attending the beam in you own eye first?

      (Matthew 7:3-5)

          Hunky-Dory trying to analayse users comments and out study them up to a certain point

          I'm honestly not quite sure what you mean by this. Can you clarify a bit, or share an example of what you mean?

          I do try to be thoughtful with my responses, consider what's being said, and share my perspective. I often get it wrong...I'm human and sometimes I fuck up. I'm always willing to take a step back and correct myself when I've fucked up. I don't always see it, but I'm open to being shown.

          We're all here because we like VR porn and want it to grow and improve. We have different pitches as to how to get there, and I'm down to discuss strategy, preferences, and shared interests with anyone who wants to engage.

          Hunky-Dory what you don't want to hear

          I do want to point out that, so far, I haven't released anything that wasn't a PMV edit (and I get all sorts of feedback on those that I'm happy to receive, both compliments and critiques). So when it comes to conversations about all the other content, none of the feedback is directed at me, so I have no dog in the fight. Just trying to be part of a conversation about what we like and want to see more of.

          That said, sometimes people are jerks and I'm not down with that. As a member of the community I reserve the right to nope out of a conversation if there's not at least a baseline of mutual respect happening.

          But again, I'm just sharing what's in my heart. No one is obligated to agree. I'm asking that they be chill and open about it, but I'm not y'all's dad. Everyone gets to make their own choices.

              Will65 i've been over this point exhaustively because it is important. If all criticism of model appearance is prohibited, we have no way of explaining to the company why we dislike a particular type of model. It's more than a bit ridiculous, especially in light of the horrible - and directly personal - comments I see users make here every day.

              You're missing the point. It's not about what you don't like, its about what you and others do like.
              If you like a studio, but not the model, you can suggest they also film with a model you do like. There is no need to say nasty and hurtful things about a person to try and get a video you want made.

                  rerun119 I think what he’s saying is that, for example, this CJ Miles scene has 1.4K likes and then one guy in the comments complaining about plastic surgery. They’re going to put more stock in the thousands who liked it than the one guy who didn’t. That’s not to say I don’t go in the comments complaining, of course I do, but it’s usually about technical things or directorial choices, it’s very rarely, if ever, personally attacking anyone. They may just ignore my complaints too but many sites do still see VR as being in an experimental phase and actively say that they want feedback from the VR community to improve the product. I know the guy from VRHush has said to me that he appreciates my forceful feedback good and bad as it’s market research that they can’t buy from anywhere else.

                  As for the surgery thing, would most of us prefer natural girls in an ideal world? Yes. However we all have different body type preferences and sometimes nature doesn’t give a girl that body type that we like. I like loads of different girls but don’t want to watch all flat chested thin teen looking girls all the time. Sometimes I want to see a Kiara Cole or Dakota Tyler, other times I want to see some tits and ass and, if the only way to get that is for those tits to be surgically enhanced, I’m ok with that. There’s not a ton of Angela White’s in porn with huge natural boobs, most need some help to get there. Also some women who did have great natural boobs when they were 19 years old find that gravity or having kids takes it’s toll so they get surgery to get those boobs back.

                  As I said before, the vast, vast majority of girls that VR studios pick to shoot are all natural girls. Having the odd CJ Miles or Kitana Montana popping up once every blue moon shouldn’t be the end of the world.

                      Will65 No, that's totally fair. You make a great point.

                      I'm not really speaking on behalf of the company so much as speaking as a member of a community who also is making content for the community. And as such, I'm definitely not saying constructive feedback/critique/etc. are invalid.

                      Regarding that feedback thread, I do think there's a difference between

                      "Does this dress make me look fat?" "Yes."

                      and

                      "Hello. That dress makes you look fat."

                      Solicited vs unsolicited feedback hits different. Anyone is perfectly free to use the second approach. I'm just trying to have a dialog about how maybe we can achieve common goals another way.

                      (PS - I feel like you and I have come a long way towards understanding each other in this thread and I'm grateful for that. My initial response was an attempt at what I thought was solicited feedback. I hope that's clearer now.)

                        Hunky-Dory listen to what people actually want rather than interpreting what they want from data.

                        My goal is to attempt both, but sometimes the two conflict. It's complicated.

                        But I take your point. I should listen more. I'll work on that.

                            Will65 I could say that we have way too many blondes, and that I hate blondes. That is also a comment on appearance, and could be taken as "derogatory".

                            No, it couldn't. Don't act like language was completely arbitrary since it isn't.

                            The whole rest of your post is pointless since you obviously don't understand that it's not about what you say but how you say it. Nobody says that you're not allowed to criticize things but you should watch your language because offensive language can actually hurt people. For example, don't call people names and don't put them in derogatory categories. You can voice your feedback with the very same meaning without using derogatory language. It's as simple as that and I think deep within you know that as well.

                            It's also pointless to continue with pointing the finger on me since I already admitted my mistake and took respective action. And by the way, I would probably tell Demi in a one-on-one conversation in real life that I didn't like her tats and that imho they're pretty ugly if she asked me for feedback on it (of course only hypothetical). That's imho honest feedback although I admit that it could also hurt her (it's one of my personal issues that I'm often way too direct without thinking through what the other person could feel but I'm working on it). That's why I deleted my post after thinking it over. I wonder though whether you'd call CJ "plastic model" in a personal conversation...

                            Anyway, since there's still zero self-reflection on your side, it's pretty pointless to continue this conversation. Obviously you have zero intention to improve your behaviour or even accept that there was something wrong with it in the first place.

                                Hunky-Dory over analising user responses and using tbat as data feedback rather reading the room

                                I truly don't see the distinction between "over analysing user responses" and "listening/reading the room". The two seem synonymous to me.

                                As an example, for my PMVs, I get comments that they're too aggressive and use too many effects/cuts, and I get comments that they need to be more aggressive with more cuts. They're literally taking opposite positions at the same time. I listen to all of them, eagerly, but the only way to resolve that conflict is to look at the data and see which style more people enjoy. I can't make everyone happy, but I can try to make more people happy.

                                That's really the best I can do.

                                  Hunky-Dory

                                  I did not read the whole thread but data is the most effective way to get feedback what people like. Not even 1% give feedback in the forums. That is a stupid way to make decisions that have an effect on all.

                                  Mutiny moderation of videos is most of the time a waste of time. How about you guys implement that at "-5" votes, you get an automated review request. This way you will catch the majority of tasteless comments quite fast.

                                        Padarak How about you guys implement that at "-5" votes, you get an automated review request.

                                        I don't know anything about how the dev team would prioritize/implement that, but I think it's a swell idea.

                                        @justsomedude101?

                                          Mutiny It's just...taking a negative position against content many others are seemingly happy consuming...I just don't see the benefit. It just feels futile, like misspent energy, IMHO.

                                          You have a good point there. I was giving negative feedback to a lot of scenes in the past but in the last few months I mostly only comment on stuff I like and just ignore the content I dislike. I mean, it's pretty pointless anyway and I actually don't want to spoil the fun for others. Sometimes I fall back in old behaviours, especially when it's about stuff I really looked forward to or when something actually pisses me off enough, but most of the time I'm able to resist writing negative comments. Like you said, it actually makes much more sense to give positive feedback and to try convincing people of the stuff you actually want to see. I mean, the recent "communication effort" here in the forums is the best proof for it with Alex Nash, VRfanservice and you actually asking for ideas and suggestions for upcoming scenes. That way you can really have an impact on the direction of the site or at least certain scenes which is a lot more worthwile than writing negative feedback in comment sections with little to zero impact other than pissing other people off who like that content.

                                            Hunky-Dory again apparently i insulted you,

                                            Correct.

                                            Hunky-Dory You're poco loco and little insane mate

                                            Correct.

                                            Hunky-Dory Everything you say shoud be take with al little bit of salt .

                                            Correct.

                                            Hunky-Dory I don't like you

                                            The data does suggest this.

                                            Hunky-Dory you manipulate users opinions !

                                            That's called "having an opinion and saying it out loud to people"

                                            Hunky-Dory You're a bad peson

                                            Sometimes, though I try not to be.

                                            Hunky-Dory and shoudn't represent SLR.

                                            The data suggests otherwise.

                                                            petermc it’s very rarely, if ever, personally attacking anyone.

                                                            Complaining about excessive casting of a type of model is not personally attacking anyone. legit not sure why people can't get that. You're arguing about something that didn't happen.

                                                            This whole thread is nothing but a straw man.

                                                                LordCrash I wonder though whether you'd call CJ "plastic model" in a personal conversation...

                                                                Of course not. That's why I didn't direct the comment at her, or criticize her for her choices. The comment was pointed at the company and casting director who chooses types of models. I'm not even convinced that the models read these comments. If I were in their position, I sure wouldn't.

                                                                    Will65
                                                                    "The plastic parade continues. Yuck."

                                                                    Perfectly fine post, very well written with no intention to make any trouble or to piss people off. Surprisingly 21 people took notice though and downvoted this very thoughful comment of mine although it was never meant to be divisive in any way. I was only talking directly to the site owners, politely asking to shoot more content with all natural girls and less content with girls with augmented tits.

                                                                    LOL 🤣

                                                                    Dude, just finally fucking admit that your post was always meant to stir trobule from the start and that you wanted it to be pretty divisive and offensive. What's so fucking hard about that? You're too proud for that? Come on...

                                                                    You could have easily written something like "I wish SLR would shoot with more all-natural girls in the future again. I'm personally not into girls with heavy augmentations." That would have been perfectly fine and I guarantee nobody would have deleted it and probably nobody would have even downvoted it, at least not as many people.

                                                                    So yes, this thread is a straw man, but a straw man you created yourself. 😉

                                                                        Will65 Of course not. That's why I didn't direct the comment at her, or criticize her for her choices. The comment was pointed at the company and casting director who chooses types of models.

                                                                        If you stand besides a girl and tell the guy in front of you that the girl besides was a plastic model and that this whole plastic parade was yucky you're still offensive and insulting to the girl. It's totally irrelevant to whom you direct your words when saying stuff in a public space. You could maybe voice such things in a private e-mail which can only be read by you and the recipient but this is a public forum and the model could very well read the stuff you write. And it's not up to you to decide whether she should do that or not. You should rather always act like she surely did - which is pretty much the official guideline for the comments section.

                                                                        Like I said multiple times before now, it's only your tone that's off. not the actual content. You could easily give your feedback in a less offensive tone but for whatever reason you simply don't want to do it and you don't want to admit that your tone was off from the beginning. So we're going in circles here...