Feedback. Less all the time?

dango789

doublevr
A few days ago, I was a big fan of SLR who happened to also have a few concerns. Initially, I was just mildly frustrated, and spoke out mostly so that more features don't get removed. I even defended SLR on the things that you do right!

But then you and others refused to even acknowledge how repeatedly removing features from customers after we've paid can possibly upset us. Zero empathy. Just days of fighting, insisting that we are wrong with your outrageous logic.

As a lifetime member, I WANT to see SLR succeed. I want SLR to offer the best content. I want SLR to have the best experience. I want SLR to have a good reputation. I want to work with you, but you turn us against you when you refuse to listen to our collective feedback, insist you're always right and fight with us instead.

Frankly, after being treated like this, I am quite annoyed. Do you not understand that this sort of behaviour turns us against you?

spacepirate

dango789 well said

trying to play us for fools doesnt help either

doublevr

dango789 Do you not understand that this sort of behaviour turns us against you?

What kind of behaviour do you expect? As for someone who makes enthusiastically things work your requirements are not bearable. What is even worse is the disrespectful way you express it.

There is no other site anywhere near to SLR. I do my best to get even more cool stuff, it's just not physically possible to have everything under one roof. And it's not someone's fault or plan. It's how things work. Yet you come up with the opposite of it blaming people who do their best to provide.

doublevr

dango789 you guys should understand VR is living and breathing thing. It's not even a business as you can't make money there since you re-invest everything to make things happen.

Other companies have better luck taking money out of it. Instead we are fully committed to bring things up to the next level. It's not only about tech we invent, but also the policies we make. There's some logic in things we do which is not immediately clear for a regular customer, but we totally have to implement it if we want to succeed.

Please respect our decision. And if you are concerned of anything check https://forum.sexlikereal.com/d/3406-slr-2023-plans

dango789

doublevr I expect you to put a stop to this toxic environment that normalises insulting customers, people on reddit or other stakeholders. This sours your relationship with customers, ruins your reputation in the community and burns bridges with those who you could have formed working relationships with.

I expect you to listen to what your customers have to say rather than instantly dismiss us, or worse yet, fight with us. We are not your enemies. Stop treating us like we are. Work together with us. Listen to our feedback and make our experiences better.

I expect you to stop taking features away from us without replacing it with anything else.

Do those things and I assure you that SLR will be seen far more favourably by your customers and the community.

Mutiny

Edit: I vented here and while I still believe what I said, it didn't need saying.

Hope you all have a great day, and I'll see ya around.

spacepirate

Mutiny people have raised very valid criticisms here. you chiming in to say "youre all assholes who dont deserve to watch my vids.. and btw i met doublevr once.. hes a good dude" while simultaneously dismissing all the criticisms isnt helping anything. very presumptuous of you to assume that everyone watches your vids too i might add.

Will65

LordCrash In my honest opinion, your actual unique selling point are SLR Originals combined with releases from other major studios . For many users that's the actual reason for subscribing - not the fancy webpage or all the other small VR studios or all the gimmicky stuff etc. It's about getting access to high-quality VR porn.

Add in top-notch scripting and this comment is spot on. No one cares about the garbage ameture studios. They are clutter. I used to check new vids every day, but since major studios left, I only check on new scripts and new SLR Originals. I'm sure that you all preceive yourselves as visionaries advancing the future of VR, but your current customers are not investors in your visions of future startups. We are paying customers who expect regular, technically compentent, high quality releases on a consistent and predictable schedule. And we expect the terms of our subscriptions to be consistent as well, not continually negotiated down AFTER THEY ARE BOUGHT AND PAID FOR. And we certainly don't appreciate condescension and shit-talking when we suggest or complain on a public forum that you put in place explicitly FOR OUR FEEDBACK. Can't take the criticism? Close the discussion boards. What you really seem to want is an echo-chamber full of fawning praise. You all act like we should be thankful for this wonderful gift you're giving us out of the goodness of your hearts! You are a business, providing a product. We pay for that product. You owe us what we paid for. We owe you payment. If either sides doesn't deliver, the other side complains. WTF is so hard to understand?

Mutiny There's a half dozen of you on here I wish I could block from watching my shit because you don't deserve it.

No one cares about your silly PMVR nonsense. This platform is overrun with "creators" with overinflated and narcississtic views of their own imporrtance.

eos666

I do have to agree with OP tho, content quality and quantity has tanked completely over the past months,, livecam section is still a complete mess and unsuable, still not even the most basic UI/UX improvments.. I dont think Ill be renewing my yearly subscription anymore.

Mutiny

spacepirate ok.

someoneX

Rakly3 unlimited downloads, impossible.

I understand that with SLR's business model they can't be unlimited, but I don't understand why they've had to be reduced so substantially several times already while charging the same monthly fees, and why you can't offer addon packs at extra cost for users who would like more downloads.

I also don't understand the prices for individual purchases - they bear no relation to the subscription price. Why do single scenes have to cost up to $9.99? That's out of proportion to the monthly flat rate prices of SLR and the studio websites, which include DRM-free access to hundreds of scenes. Even $0.99 would be high in comparision, but at least would be something I would maybe consider in some cases.

And if your answer is, that the studios decide those prices, even SLR Originals are $6.99 - so it seems you also consider prices of multiple dollars per scene as justified.

Rakly3 Bitrates, we have the studio original files available.

Oversized "original files" (sometimes with unfavorable codecs) make no sense to the user as an alternative to a reasonable bitrate at the level of many other studios.

Rakly3 If it was up to us, HereSphere would work with SLR right now.

As independend product, that also supports other sites and without restrictions for the developer? If you really want that, just implement the Heresphere API - I doubt he will actively block you from doing that.

LordCrash

Rakly3 we have a custom made 10k rig.

Not here yet. Let's talk again when it's up and running and looking good. I might change my opinion then.

Rakly3 unlimited downloads, impossible.

Yeah, maybe, but the amount of downloads has been further reduced. There are by the way major websites where you can download hundreds of scenes without restrictions. Believe me, I've been subscribed or I am still subscribed to almost every major porn site out there...

Rakly3 Bitrates, we have the studio original files available.

You know exactly what I'm talking about and this has been discussed many times. Original files are useless for most people. And the bitrate of your normal downloads suck. There has to be a high-quality option with a better bitrate without being forced to download a 100 GB file. Every other major studio does better than SLR. Let's have another look:

CzechVR - 60,000 kbit/s
NA VR - 60,000 kbit/s
WankzVR/POVR - 50,000 kbit/s
VR Bangers/VR Conk - 50,000 kbit/s
RealJamVR - 50,000 kbit/s
Virtual Real Porn - 50,000 kbit/s
BadoinkVR/18 VR/VRCosplayX/Kink VR - 40,000 kbit/s
Virtual Taboo/DRVR - 40,000 kbit/s
SinsVR - 40,000 kbit/s
SLR - 30,000 kbit/s (or overblown 100,000+ kbit/s)

Now tell me again about that no 1 customer satisfaction approach...

Rakly3 HereSphere

I didn't assume anything. I stated the facts that it's not available. And there is simply no alternative since your own player is inferior. People wouldn't request Heresphere if Deo was just as good or better.

Rakly3 Schedules. Not sure what you mean. We don't decide when studios release their scenes.

Release schedule for SLR Originals. Stuff gets shifted all the time and nobody knows when videos finally show up. It looks like it's all made up on the fly with no actual planning involved.

Rakly3 Also, not sure what you mean by implying there is no hardcore on SLR, or what your definition is.

Not no hardcore, more hardcore. Nasty, filthy, fun stuff. Anything that isn't the vanilla GFE type of scenes. Of course mostly for SLRO since almost nobody cares about the amateur studios anyway. Looks to me like stuff like that is rather reduced than extended. You're lucky that RealJamVR is still on your board since they consistently do more of that stuff like the DP lately. And by the way, why is there no MMFF SLRO scene since like forever although people have been asking for it?

Rakly3 That "gimmicky stuff" is advancing VR R&D and costing SLR millions $.

Yeah, that's probably the main issue. Like I said, contentrate on the most important things first. We seem to have different opinions on what that is but I guess that's why there is a gap between the wishes of your customers and your own plans. If some of that money would go into making more quality content with best quality tech it might be a better deal for the customers who pay you money right now. I'm not against R&D in general, far from it. But it seems like you're much more invested and concerned about that gimmicky stuff that might turn into something in 3 years or 5 years or 10 years than the stuff that is released today. At least that's how it looks from the outside.

And don't get me wrong, I very much assume that you guys work hard and that's good. But I doubt that claim that you primarily listen to customer feedback and implement that rather than coming up with stuff on your own.

If you really want to be the no 1 customer centrific site how about implementing a requests board on which people can request things and other people get to vote for them and on which people can actually see what you guys implemented based on actual customer feedback?

doublevr

LordCrash your bitrate claims are non-sense.

There's an algorithm choosing btirate, not some dude https://www.sexlikereal.com/blog/82-vr-video-bitrate-explained

You won't get any extra quality gains adding more bitrate over a certain point.

LordCrash

Rakly3 90% of VR studios and their content would not exist without SLR.

I guess you're speaking about most of the smaller studios since the bigger studios/productions like RealJamVR, VR Hush, LethalHardcoreVR, WankzVR, LustReality, CzechVR that most people care about (if purely based on likes and everything) were there before SLR was even established and will very likely still be there if SLR was gone. And I'd bet that newer studios like SinsVR and FuckPassVR could also continue to exist without SLR since they already have their own sites and loyal fans. Or do you really think most people are primarily subscribed to all the "filler content" from smaller and often much more amateurish studios on SLR? Most scenes from smaller studios usually have no more than 100 or 200 likes which tells a lot about their appeal to the broader customer base.

So technically, you are right that these other studios probably won't be there without SLR and that the major studios might had to deal with some decreased income if SLR shut down but imho you overestimate the effect SLR actually has on the VR porn industry. There are major other VR studios out there, some completely or almost completely detached from SLR, like Naughty America or Badoink or CzechVR or POVR or VR Bangers (now). They can thrive perfectly without SLR and I'd claim that some of them even do some things quite better than SLR. POVR, for example, offers a lot of the same major studios and you more or less get the same experience watching the actualy high quality scenes there. Only difference is that they don't offer SLRO scenes while you guys don't offer POVR scenes. That's the reason why I'm subscribed to both networks.

In my honest opinion, your actual unique selling point are SLR Originals combined with releases from other major studios . For many users that's the actual reason for subscribing - not the fancy webpage or all the other small VR studios or all the gimmicky stuff etc. It's about getting access to high-quality VR porn.

So most people are likely here for SLR Originals and these other major studios I've mentioned above. With a SLR sub they don't have to seperately subscribe to RealJamVR, for example, which is indeed a real benefit. That's the reason why the departure of VR Bangers is so devasting for the network. Every major brand leaving the subscription is something that you can hardly compensate without either offering more content produced on your own or by substituting it with another major brand. I don't know why you're defensive about that, it's just a simple fact. Sad for both you as the platform holder and us as the customers. It definitely shouldn't come as a surprise that your subscribers are really pissed about stuff like that and demand for action to compensate for the lost content/functionality.

doublevr

LordCrash You Sire are either blind or stupid.

Passthrough, interactive scripts, groundbreaking 8K streaming app, BYOJ, JAV are super popular stuff no one else is anywhere close. Funny how you just generalize your own projections and "speaking" for all the customers.

LOL
Tell you what, no one really needs unlimited downloads or HS 😂

bobbytables

this entire thread is evidence that the people are right. Most of the claims about "you guys are asking for things we cannot do" are incorrect. Been working with startups and getting them feature complete for the past 10+ years, I have an extremely good barometer for what it takes to add the features requested and implemented so far. SLR, if managed properly, could easily be far better or at least feature-parity with heresphere in a matter of months with like 3 or 4 devs. My guess is they are just horribly mismanaged or have terrible devs or a combination of both.

Meanwhile the other claims about video quality being impossible are disproven by SLR themselves, seeing as how they produced content people loved on the regular, then somehow ended up nosediving to where we are at now. The best comparison is the Raw Taboo scene that was released recently: it was shot in the same location as the Xxlayna scene, yet when compared the Xxlayna scene is in all regards a better scene both in the video quality and lighting as well as the actual acting framing and positions/intimacy. You can compare the recent scene against most older scenes and it is by far worse, and that's true of pretty much all of the scenes being released by SLR. So every time one of the staff or the ceo comes out with "YOU GUYS ARE WHINING ABOUT THINGS WE CANNOT DO" you know he's just blatantly wrong and makes him look like someone throwing a tantrum, because it's been done before by SLR.

Jacksonjdr94

Look, the fact is that several times I've gone to use the SLR subscription the way I have previously used and enjoyed it, and then suddenly I can't anymore.

Whether it's a favorited scene that was removed without warning.

or heresphere functionality which was removed without warning.

or my download limit being halved without warning.

Comparing this bullshit to YouTube is a piss-poor analogy.
YouTube is free. Paid for by ads.
If YouTube takes away my free access to content I am getting what I paid for. Nothing.

SLR isn't free. It holds the title of being the most expensive vr porn subscription on the market.
Over the last couple of years, your prices seem to be going up while my satisfaction is on the decline, and my reasons for this are valid.

Your prices are going up, You aren't offering what you used to, and in some cases your less-expensive competitors are.
It's as simple as that.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that you would gladly lock your customers into streaming only, no downloads SMB, or DLNA. Streaming exclusively through your own proprietary app if you could get away with it without your subscribers doing a mass exodus.

When you take perfectly functional things away from your paying customers you should expect negative feedback accordingly.
you saying "Well we are still the bestest..so either come and fix it yourself or deal with it. Sorry, not sorry" doesn't fill me with patience or optimism about you making any effort to try to return what has been lost, or even compensate in some way.

It also pretty much exacerbates my concerns that at any time your service might get worse with no warning. And you're fine with that.

You talk a big game about your customer satisfaction but I've silently had reservations about your intended direction for quite some time, i'm sure others remain silent too.

The 80 replies to this thread overwhelmingly indicate that my concerns are valid.

A lot of much bigger companies than yours don't last the distance with your "oh well, tough luck. we're still the greatest" philosophy on customer satisfaction.

And I type all of this knowing you'll ignore it.
Will be interesting to reflect back on this on 5 years and see what's changed, or if SLR still exists at all.

LordCrash

Jacksonjdr94 SLR isn't free. It holds the title of being the most expensive vr porn subscription on the market.

Word.

Will65

Rakly3 we have a custom made 10k rig.

Will it be as awesome as your 8k rig? /s

Rakly3 unlimited downloads, impossible.

Other sudios manage it, so not impossible. You just won't.

Rakly3 Bitrates, we have the studio original files available.

You can offer smaller downloads in better bitrates, but apparently can't be bothered.

Rakly3 HereSphere, Stop assuming you know what's going on. If it was up to us, HereSphere would work with SLR right now. - I don't want to throw the HereSphere dev under the bus here. He explained to me the details and I understand his side too.

Not enough infromation public, but inference seems to be that you wanted his proprietary information he was unwilling to share, due to fear of you just stealing it and implenting it (likely poorly) into DeoVR. With SLR's reputation for shady practices and your stellar community relations (/s), I'm not surprised.

Rakly3 Schedules. Not sure what you mean. We don't decide when studios release their scenes.

You can't meet YOUR OWN publicly posted release schedules. This type pf answer is exactly the type of doubletalk that aggaravates people. Everyone know you can't trust SLRs release schedule. It's a damn running joke in the forums. Yet, here you are acting like you dont know what in the world we could be talking about.

Rakly3 Also, not sure what you mean by implying there is no hardcore on SLR, or what your definition is.

I dont like most hardcore, so I don't care about this. But: your content is pretty vanilla. Even when you tag something as BDSM, it's 30 seconds of someone lightly restrained with a scarf.

Samsonite121

Will65 Mutinys PMVs are anything but nonsense. It's fresh, it's great in VR an he does an incredible job with this content....!!!

abcrebel

Will65 There's a lot of "we" talking, putting words in other people's mouths, and smack talking going on here. Please don't. 🤨 Scripting, big studios, or Originals are not my thing so much, but I'm not going to trash talk the "no one's" that care. I'm on the other end of that careless statement. Me and the minority are paying customers too, dealing with the same unfortunate and fortunate changes that come along. The probable truth is if you were new to VR, your tone would be a lot less negative than it is now. Don't entirely fail to appreciate the gift of this site and the people behind it making it happen. Customers are still paying their subscriptions, so that means this VR porn service is successfully running and still in business despite all the inconsiderate noise in this thread about any such short-comings. Rants and opinions are fine, but going on a spree attacking others is not, at least in my consciousness.

I wouldn't think to have to say this, but know that no one is perfect, and that applies to customers, businesses, and staff within businesses. Changes, good and bad, forward and backward, are mostly part of every industry and life; it's something we have to accept or else we get begruntled. Feedback is welcome, but at this point, the entitled expectations, comparisons, and demands have got to go, unless being disgruntled makes one happy. Some people like me aren't as concerned about half of what is being discussed, and many are mostly happy with no need of joining the forum to provide feedback. For those that do, this is a cooperative venture with the blessing of two-way communication. Not all, but many changes and features have been implemented as we've requested; it's a fair deal in my opinion. Everyone's passion is great, but please remember other people unlike you and your vision exist. Your ending words "we this ... we that ..." are kind of mechanical; remember that we are human beings on both sides of the equation. No matter who we are, we deserve a certain amount of toleration, respect, and courtesy. Otherwise, discussions are closed not because of thoughtful criticism, but because of a lack of common decency, hurtful comments, and offensiveness.

LordCrash

abcrebel Not all, but many changes and features have been implemented as we've requested; it's a fair deal in my opinion.

Ok then, tell me which requested features were implemented in the last couple months. Five should be sufficient.

abcrebel Feedback is welcome, but at this point, the entitled expectations, comparisons, and demands have got to go, unless being disgruntled makes one happy.

Will65 We are paying customers who expect regular, technically compentent, high quality releases on a consistent and predictable schedule.

So that's an "entitled expectation" for you? I'd say it's pretty much the very basic expectation to have on a site like this...

In my honest opinion, you try to water down very valid criticism with your long but pointless essay. I don't think that this forum needs another white knight shielding SLR with bloated posts about courtesy, there is moderation in place for things like personal attacks. Truth is, people here are passionate about stuff and they are at least honest about stuff. Let them voice their opinion, there is some truth to be found there. If everyone just remains silent nothing will get better.

Mutiny

Samsonite121 Thanks, Sam.

doublevr

abcrebel Praise to the smart ones 🙏

abcrebel

LordCrash In my honest opinion, you try to water down very valid criticism with your long but pointless essay.

Likewise, in my honest opinion, you overlook basic truthful points I've made and call them pointless; then isolate something to take focus away of what equally matters. I'm just a simple and easily satisfied person who doesn't care to have the technical jargon or ultimate-perfect VR experience like some of you, but I do have experience in being peaceful, compassionate, and having integrity to speak up when necessary. People are quick to always point at something, someone, or some institute outside of them as being not good enough and blow it out of proportion, but when someone says anything to lighten the situation and try to prevent it from going south even more, for my own reasons which I'll explain further, then all of a sudden you have another problem. Can I not voice my opinions too? Can I not remain silent too? You're speaking your truth, can I not speak my truth?

If you really want to know about implemented features, you can search them yourself being that whatever I said and would say is pointless to you. I rarely speak out unless myself (directly or indirectly) or someone else I relate to gets thrown under the bus, as was the case here. I have worthy principles I live by just the same as you have principles you live by and desire from SLR, and just the same as SLR has principles through the implementation of compliance. All are necessary for forward momentum and continuation. There's a possibility that this site could be on the chopping block right now if not for the compliance actions, of course not many would give it a second thought. There's also a possibility that this thread could have been locked had I not said anything. The resulting continuation of this thread and new thread about bitrate is a better result than being locked and further posts popping up fueling more heated discussions, leading to more insults and a repeat of the same old, same old.

I speak for myself and out of being a satisfied and loyal customer. It's fine that you would think of me as a "white knight shielding SLR with bloated posts about courtesy, there is moderation in place for things like personal attacks." That's just a projected by-product of what I'm am expressing here. I'm just doing the same thing you are doing. If you see something wrong, or that needs improvement, you speak up and say something in hopes that it will get better. I'm not trying to moderate, I'm just speaking up on what I see wrong, offering feedback, and being human about it. Try seeing the bigger picture and expanding things outside into the real world. Would you not want someone to step in if you were being attacked? Whenever there is any kind of attack, there is some kind of entitlement lurking underneath. It's best not to let it get to that point and provide other ways of looking at it to alleviate the situation.

Btw, I really appreciate the way you've been speaking and being conscious with your words. "Most, in my opinion, I think." I'm personally pleased in this kind of courteous progress on the forums. VR progression is good, but progression of decent human relations is a good thing to strive for as well. We have learned these mindful word-expressions to prevent butting heads and causing fights to unnecessarily break out, which is a courtesy and a fine lubrication that keeps discussions going. Even though I don't like the way you're always combatant, I honor that in you, as that is your unique expression which in part helps push VR further in your own interactions. If it's ok for one to keep pressing their case for the other to understand their side, then surely it's ok for another to keep pressing their case until the other side can understand their side as well. These forums are here for learning and growth, and they cover broad areas at times, even into new territory. I'm just inserting a little softness into the mix, and providing more effectual insight of these soft terms for those that may be unfamiliar, because to me that's what's missing in many people's hearts and interactions with their own kind. No matter how technologically evolved a society is, without these soft and understanding traits, they destroy themselves and wreak havoc in the world. 😉

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