ZENRA Sites that survive the test of time including the ever-changing legal landscape are the ones that have always erred on the side of caution.

Legalporno is there since like forever. It has been there way before SLR and it probably will still be there when SLR is already gone. Are they on the side of caution? I wouldn't say so...

ZENRA It sounds like you don't realize how these card companies operate.

To me it seems like that you don't realize that there is a whole world beyond America and its companies and its evangelical politics. And that's actually the whole point of this thread. It's NOT about America. It's about making a European company for European customers - under the same corporate umbrella. I don't know exactly how you guys started your Japanese endeavour but I guess you have some legal entity there as well.

ZENRA Visa/MC rules are global.

American credit card companies in Europe are operated under European law with European management. I don't think credit card managers in American even give a shit about their international business as along as its profitable. In America they care due to religious lunatics that regularly crusade against porn. In Europe, almost nobody gives a shit. That's the difference that people in the US usually simply don't comprehend because they are so centered on the US.

ZENRA However, laws are laws and if you have real issues with the types of adult content a site like SLR and many other legit sites can show, it's the rewriting what is obscenity for starters that needs a looking at. Complaining to paysites, billers, card companies is easy because it's in one's face but a real change requires at the very least reaching out to politicians from the local level upward.

There is no such obscenity law for porn in most European countries. People just don't care. That's kind of the point...

            You're all free to debate this as much as you'd like, but tbh I wouldn't expect there to be any changes. SLR generally tends to air on the side of caution because we like being able to accept payments and continue staying in business, and the potential customers we may lose (or that we may not gain in the first place) due to certain niche content not being carried pales in comparison to hypothetically being shut off from EFT's like Visa/Mastercard or our payment processors.

            p.s. I'm not on the legal team and these are mostly my assumptions.

            petermc It's absolutely a legal issue in that card companies don't want to be sued into oblivion if they inadvertently process 'obscene' content.

            The reason GoT can show incest and adult sites can't comes down to the aforementioned 'obscenity' and 'artistic merit'. GoT is not an incest porn series. There is an actual non-sexual plot that takes up the bulk of each episodes. Your average person is not watching GoT for the bits of incest sex here and there (and really, there isn't much outside of the very first episode). Conversely, your average person watches adult content for a very certain reason which may or may not have enough artistic merit to keep it from being considered 'obscene'. This is the fine line card companies need to take when accepting our business.

            Again,. bankers, card companies, etc. would LOVE to process everything legal and not have to worry about it, but the law of the land plus America's litigious nature makes this difficult. So again, if you want to see more currently proscribed content, lamenting on this forum will not help. You will need to contact politicians or consider running for office.

                LordCrash I don't know too much about Legal Porno, but from what I've seen from "gray area" paysites (ie, with themes that push the line), they are VERY careful with the wording they use on the site and in their movies to push the 'processing OK' line at times, but never cross it.

                Per non-USA, sure, EU can make their own credit card from scratch if they want. It will only take many billions of dollars. And it would be economic suicide for SLR or most any site to solely focus on this region while not accepting major credit cards. Fortunately, while a 'EU card' does not seem to be happening, there are more and more alternative payment options and perhaps we may get to a point where a paysite could theoretically attempt operating without accepting regular cards, but that day has not yet arrived.

                I think at the end of the day--and data from what I've seen backs this--most users don't really care about out of the box content. Most simply want to see vanilla content of pretty people having sex together. Please keep this in mind.

                    ZENRA You will need to contact politicians or consider running for office.

                    I'm not an American citizen. I live in the actual free world that isn't dominated by puritan morals and pathetic sexual double standards.

                    And I do think that major players in the porn industry should actually strive for payment methods and production and company locations that are not restricted by ridiculous 18th century ideas. It should actually be one of their very top priorities - at least if they don't run their business solely based on monetary reasons.

                    ZENRA Per non-USA, sure, EU can make their own credit card from scratch if they want.

                    They don't have to. In the EU Belgian courts already have the exclusive jurisdication for the application of laws based on Masterdata's rules and standards. Therefore American people can't sue Masterdata in the US for stuff that European companies do with Masterdata services within the EU.
                    But you need a company that is based in the EU, of course. Then you are protected by European laws, no matter what you do. That's kind of the point of the thread.

                          LordCrash I honestly don’t care enough. Just enjoy getting amused by your never-ending conflict. Good luck with your latest crusade 😂

                            LordCrash That's kind of the point of the thread.

                            there is no longer a point to the thread. You made a suggestion to SLR to start a new site. The owner responded immediately that they won’t be doing this and even told you why. What further point is there other than you yelling at the wall for the sake of yelling at the wall? There, I added something to your now pointless thread and I still couldn’t care less about any of it 🍿😂🍿

                              ZENRA when has that ever happened? When Max Hardcore was prosecuted, no one went after the credit card company, they went after the guy who produced and “transported” the content both over the internet and in the mail. He still runs a website btw showing all the stuff that was considered obscene except all audio relating to ageplay has been removed.

                              No one is suing a credit card company because they happen to process a payment for a third party billing provider that is deemed to be obscene, not that any of this stuff we’re talking about would be classed as obscene anyway. Maybe if it was underage people involved and they could prove Visa/Mastercard knowingly processed payments for actual illegal content. Are they supposed to watch every scene though on every porn site in the world to make sure someone says “step” dad or that the girl doesn’t swallow the pee. No way would they ever be held liable and their unlimited army of lawyers would see to that anyway. It’s literally just them bowing to the religious right wing zealots in the US by imposing their own moral judgment to ban perfectly legal material.

                                  petermc and the owner of SLR has made it clear he isn’t interested pursuing this content regardless of who believes (or doesn’t believe) that it may (or may not) be obscene so why do you continue to belabor the point? let it go already.

                                      stst12 Those sites are not registered in the EU I'm sure. Though they could be, but i think not.

                                      @LordCrash
                                      Exporting uncensored JAV content is illegal. SLR would have to close down the .jp site and no Japanese studios will post any more videos to us either.

                                      The models in those videos will also risk no longer being hired by actual legit studios, risk getting fined and even jailtime. Instead of gaining JAV, we'd be losing all Asian content shot in Japan.

                                      Many uncensored 'JAV' is also shot outside of Japan. But the models still run the risk mentioned above when returning to Japan.

                                          ZENRA That's not legal in Belgium.
                                          I've been looking to start a studio in Belgium.
                                          The laws here are pretty difficult to run a studio. Not impossible, but most stuff porn studios rely on, are simply illegal here. ie model bureaus (if it's sexwork)

                                          It's even illegal to hire a hooker for a friend. That's considered pimping.

                                          Many models prefer using a bureau because they don't have to share their personal information that way. Like their address, real name, VAT number, etc.

                                              argyle43 I don’t believe Justsomedude is the owner but I don’t doubt that he’s absolutely correct in what he said. I’m not asking for a Euro SLR, it’s not my thread. It just irks me when people try to make out porn kinks are “illegal” when they’re absolutely not, not even in the US.

                                                  petermc the reply from owner is linked here:

                                                  doublevr

                                                  and his main point was this: I’m much better off running legit operation than playing on the edge. If things go wrong there won’t be a second change. Our upcoming stack is incredible and it should not be undermined by reckless decisions.

                                                      Rakly3 Exporting uncensored JAV content is illegal. SLR would have to close down the .jp site and no Japanese studios will post any more videos to us either.

                                                      I requested no such thing in this thread actually so there's maybe a misunderstanding. This is about content that is produced in Europe and that is offered to European customers (but e.g. not to Japanese and American users due to their respective legal situation in their countries).

                                                        ZENRA

                                                        Belgian law is applied to ALL business that is conducted via Mastercard in the whole EU. You can have a company registered in Czech Republic and if you use Mastercard services their legal jurisdiction for your business is in Belgium.

                                                        And replying to a feature request with "Do it yourself" is kind of pointless.

                                                          petermc Visa/MC leave the enforcing to their merchant partners who are their actual customers. Those with plastic in their wallets and those who accept the cards on their sites and stores are not their actual customers. Real proscribed content does not make use of direct processing but various workarounds (such as in most situations being crypto-only).

                                                          I suggest anyone here interested in credit cards and our industry to listen to the Hot Money podcast (the last two episodes I think in particular cover this).