DeoVR DLNA statement
catflap trouble hiring people with the right skills?
We are having hard times finding people that will be competent to join our team. It's a rare combination of skills of C# and Unity for Windows and Android development.
We are actively hiring - hr@deovr.com
LordCrash some boring big company ("blue chip") that has a big IT department working on meaningless internal projects - nothing with unity beyond fun stuff, but we do have C# and Android - If I wasnt staying anonymous on this forum I would ask Aesthetics if there was a referral bonus!!
blaze466 I don't understand this thread.
This doesn't affect me either as I use PC VR. However, I can still easily see why this decision has an awful impact on the experiences of the many people who do use DLNA. It's really quite simple. Deo VR is currently the only solution for those who use scripts with a standalone quest 2. That singular option has now been limited to streaming only - either that, or directly transfer content to the quest 2, which is incredibly cumbersome. Streaming only is not workable for a great many people. Even taking scripts out of the equation, many people signed up on the idea that they could just use the Deo VR/SLR app, as it is marketed thoroughly as an easy all in one solution. It's very weird to be wrenched from that all in one solution offered and suddenly being told to go find some other player, no suggestions, no nothing - just telling those who soon won't be able to make use of the subscriptions they're paying for to figure it out. That is not taking care of the customer at all. And it seems, from what I've read, that there wouldn't have been any warning at all if not for an accidental throwaway reddit comment by staff! That's horrendous. And no, just communicating this change better wouldn't have made everything fine.
Regarding "the html solution", what is it? All I've seen mentioned are one liners about setting up a html webhost. How? Are people just meant to google and bang their heads against a wall for days until they possibly figure it out (or don't), because a service they subscribed to suddenly dropped a critical feature? Know-how of html webhosts and how to set them up shouldn't be assumed knowledge. If this was required knowledge for everyone getting into VR, VR would never have gotten off the ground. Deo VR and SLR are geared towards making things accessible and easier for the user. The Deo VR/SLR app is constantly advertised as the all in one solution, which is great for all those out there without a high level of technical knowledge. Now all those people who relied on DLNA and came to SLR for an easy to use experience are being told to just go set up a html webhost. That is a very poor customer experience for those people - ESPECIALLY those who bought the lifetime subscription. Things like this make people very wary about going lifetime. Now there is more to worry about than videos being taken down for compliance issues, or due to disagreements with studios, server issues, etc. Now people need to consider the possibility of SLR/Deo VR making decisions that completely cripple their ability to use the service they're paying for, unless they learn to set up a pretty technical solution.
It is true that every company has to balance resources and make business decisions based off of them, but that is a blanket statement that any business can use for almost any decision, ill considered or not. It is not sufficient explanation for the removal of a feature so critical to many.
While SLR have made their thoughts clear, it seems the driving force behind this is Deo VR itself. It seems the main reason was DLNA being too difficult to maintain, which happened to fit in with how SLR saw the app/service. It wasn't something deliberately cut out in an attempt to allow innovation to flourish.
Innovation and feature maintenance are not mutually exclusive - both can exist in the same space. While resources are always limited, it seems clear from the outcry that DLNA was not the feature to drop. I'm pretty sure if anything, people wanted local streaming improved? There have been mass requests for Deo VR to incorporate SMB for years! If there were mass calls to improve local streaming for years, why would it be considered acceptable to the userbase to drop the feature entirely? It seems to me that those limited business resources could have been better distributed. I read something from the Deo VR dev regarding them feeling unable to tell staff to work on something other than the UI? That certainly seemed odd. And the whole thing is odd when we do look at the alternatives who can implement local streaming so well, with much less resources at their disposal. Why can they do it so much better?
I note the request for people to not try to speak for the entire customer base, that's fair. However, look at the responses on this forum. There is mass outcry and from the links posted here there is a similar sentiment on reddit. Yours is the only non staff comment I've seen that defends the decision, and it's quite telling that the only positive comment I could find online was from someone who this doesn't affect. All opinions should be heard, but speaking as someone else who killing DLNA doesn't affect, I think it's fair to say that the general consensus is clear.
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blaze466 Exactly, which requires resource decisions.
Unless this is a pandemic issue, a plan on adding the resources necessary to maintain/better the app should have been in place way in advance.. Don't want to get into shit talking another business on a porn forum but to me that won't add up sorry..
blaze466 I don't use scripts and can maybe see argument for that. But, do they not work now? Does the html solution not work? (I truly don't know, so would love hear)
Then this won't affect you. The key issue here is the barrier this creates for running scripts.. DEOVR was the only app for the Q2 that runs scripts.. The infrastructure to run high end 6-8K via streaming is not even commonplace for most at least in the states.. A majority of users can't or don't have the internet to run scripts with 6-8K videos via streaming without drops.. Drops ruin the immersion and the appeal of said scripts.. Said scripts are the main reason and selling point I and many others paid to sub here. Now I and other Q2 users will no longer be able to run those scripts the way they were intended to run.. Now I am subbed to a site where when I signed up they offered (in the terms scripts) streaming and local playback of scripts. Now I and other Q2 users have to jump through hoops to get those scripts running without drops.. When dlna via the deo or slr app neatly and easily fixed that issue..
When I signed on, SLR offered 50 downloads every 72 hrs, a player with local and streaming play capabilities, and a full unaltered catalog.. A few months later my downloads drop to 30 every 72 hrs, videos being altered or removed without 100% transparency on when or what was being altered/removed, and now the apps being downgraded and dlna being dropped. To say I'm disappointed in my purchase atm and the future/vision of SLR in terms of customer service would be a huge understatement.
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Ior1yagami i wouldn't expect much of support from people using the feature, yet there was a chance for some understanding. Things don't come out of nowhere. Also Dlna folks in general seem to be a bit disparaging towards our services and maybe even exploitative as I recollect over time.
Also community response on reddit and ES show nothing but arrogance of the public. With such a caveman mentality it's for the better we part ways.
It's still not clear for me why people attacking SLR or Deo so vigorously and arrogantly expect anything but aversion.
No chance we are going to do any service for you.
blaze466 I can relate. But honestly this is the kind of backlash I thought would have happened when SLR removed the ability to copy download links which I posted about (it's restored now). But I got no user replies whatsoever and no one else complained, figured it was just me. Turns out a majority are quest owners downloading through DLNA which is foreign to me as a PC/VR person. I noted that streaming above 4k would be an issue for users, and now it really does seem to be the case when the right dlna download people are being affected.
I'm grateful we still have the ability to download, but from doublevr's comment on reddit "It's probably about time we start thinking about discontinuing h.264" ... it's the reason I'm not upgrading to lifetime from annual, and the reason I'm chiming in on this related user-concern. In another year or two we could again be facing this shocking reality if they decide to go streaming-only while offering only studios with 5k or higher.
Other than that, I've learned much from these discussions, like how dlna works, where Ottawa is located (ha), and that streaming is a common issue to those like me in the US. At one point the other day I was listening to movie-score music and literally felt like I was watching a good action-packed movie while reading all these comments.
Out of curiosity, I had a peek at the DEOVR app on google play website and didn't see comments or bad reviews about DLNA, the only one I saw was positive. But if that is SLR's concern, then maybe many of us affected can leave a good review and casually mention helpful links for newcomers. Wonder if a compromise showing appreciation of their product would help the SLR Team compromise on not axing what is not part of their vision yet still useful and doable if given an extension in time and resources.
Just for a record (again) there're no plans to go streaming only and nothing is going to change for downloads any time soon.
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blaze466 you can still download. You can use other viewers for downloads if deovr doesn't suit you.
This is only true to a point. For those unable to stream SLRO 200deg scenes that will only play properly in one of the two proprietary players (DEO or SLR), well sounds like the official position is that they’re soon to be shit out of luck. Either stream, or put up with horribly distorted playback in one of the players that does support DLNA. It’s a very disappointing turn of direction from this team, and I sincerely hope there will be calm reconsideration.
When I’m at my primary residence I can, and do, stream without much issue 90% of the time. On occasions when my Internet is down or something else prevents reliable streaming, I still have plenty of other content from NA, CVR, etc. that plays via DLNA through Skybox player, so this is just a mild frustration. I will say it was nice having DEO as my one stop shop, and I truly feel for folks out there for whom streaming is always going to be a problem. I still hope that SLR can find it in them to maintain DLNA support.
blaze466 Streaming is their top priority and will always get the most attention so not sure what you are on about. Keeping DLNA doesn't affect their ability to innovate at all.
catflap if there was a referral bonus!!
totally. please mail us and let's get things going.
blaze466 Ok, I've said my piece. I'll let the ranters resume.
I want to point out that not all who dislike this change are 'ranters' and a number of very valid opinions have been shared here. I'm not saying this to be petty or antagonistic, I'm pointing it out because saying something like that can inadvertently poison the well. It can give people the impression that anyone responding after that comment is 'ranting' if they're against DLNA removal, therefore they should be ignored - this is not the case.
Hunky-Dory Why not just put in the Terms & Conditions that DNLA issues / problems are no longer supported by the customer service but keep it for people with the knowledge and know how to carry on using it as they want.
this. The speculation that followed is not helpful, but I hope the team reads and considers this suggestion!