Passthrough videos are getting technically worse

harigeharry

Yeah just watched the intro of the original and it's clear that she actually indeed has high heels. So yeah, during the intro where she's walking around, when the dick is in the right place, Mia feels like 'leaning back'. If you forget about the dick and just want her body in a normal upright posture, you need to rotate her body upwards. So now her body is finally looking like she's standing up with a normally, straight, posture and her heels look fine now (front part and the lower heel part are horizontal) but the result is that she's standing on my desk (instead of the floor) and the dick is floating in the air and she has the size of a midget.

Not sure why this stuff is going wrong, again, it feels like you're getting material that's incorrectly shot: the dick is not in the right position relatively to the camera and neither is the model. But then you're trying to correct stuff in the video and do some morphing to get the dick in the right place and then are ok-ish with all this incorrectness and weirdness of the final result. I mean you must see this stuff too, right, @Manny_S I really dont understand how you think it's ok. Go practice and learn until you have this basic stuff right, THEN shoot video's for SLR.

Sorry but it's just getting frustrating at this point. Again, I applaud the better image quality, it's definitely an improvement. But there's still quite a way to go.

doublevr

harigeharry learning curve

harigeharry

Honestly, I know nothing about all this stuff so maybe i'm just oversimplying here. But if you put the camera where the actor's head is (or should be) then why is this all so difficult? Or is the whole problem that the camera is so big that it's hard to get it in the right place and some trickery needs to take place? Because if the camera is where the male actor's eye would normally be, then all this should be pretty easy, no?

doublevr

harigeharry oversimplified 9 out of 10.

There is a reason some very few people can film

harigeharry

doublevr Well it's not that you guys have competition. It seems CzechAR stopped doing PT all together (they havent put up a new video since 3 months). And SimSenseMedia, who is now shooting for VRporn.com is not releasing that much and I honestly didnt like any of the models he's been shooting so I'm not even tempted to open an account there. So I guess what you guys are doing is better than nothing. Still, it feels frustrating. If you go to a hospital your expect that the doctor knows how to do things right, and not that he's figuring stuff out while he's working on patients.

Anyway let's hope that the team figures it out. All this (the technical part at least) is science, not art, so definitely something that they should be able to figure out. It's all math.

On the positive side, the Alex Nash PT actually was quite good, especially if you consider that it was his very first one. And, again, I do see and welcome the picture quality improvement, so also dont want to sound TOO negative, I guess als long as improvement are happening we're on the way up here.

Manny_S

harigeharry there is a difference between production and post-production.
im in post-production.
just checked the video and didnt notice her "leaning back"? in fact i tried to position her on the floor of my room and dick was set to the correct position where mine would be? switch to the non-pt mode to see how the dude is sitting on the chair and just sit same way and the dick will be there.
i hope you are familiar with the yaw-tilt-roll settings in the deovr app.
the camera is indeed usually placed in front of the male performer's head, but not instead of it haha
the solution here could be to lean male head back and he would look somewhere at the ceiling if we want camera and lenses to be where your eyes would normally be, but again, that's on production side, which we can only suggest to do/try something and then its up to them to do/try something
about the scale its a bit tricky when they walk back and forth
i believe its due to mismatch in the camera-headset-your eyes IPD
camera records with one stereo model-to-background
headset shows you its own stereo of model-to-your-apartment
and at the end user actual eyes ipd
just try a simple trick:
put on your headset in passthrough and put a finder in front of you
put the headset on and off your head and notice the difference in stereo
you will see that what's behind your finger changes whether you look through the headset or with your own eyes
the background actually affects the scale

Manny_S

harigeharry So I guess that for PT to work, you need to take the same position as the actor,

exactly what i meant here

Manny_S switch to the non-pt mode to see how the dude is sitting on the chair and just sit same way and the dick will be there

harigeharry

Hey first of all thanks for your responses, I appreciate it. I may come of a little sour but I really just want this to work.

I'm super confused why you say you don't see it. I guess the main problem that I'm seeing is that I want, during that intro where she's walking around, her body to like lower about a meter. If I adjust the rotation (so I'm not transforming anything, just rotating up/down with 'pitch') so that her body looks straight upwards, she just is a meter too high. flying above the floor. I don't have this problem with most other PT. In fact if you watch "A taste of egypt" around 3:40, she stands there in front of me, everything looks perfect, her posture is straight, her feet touching the ground, her size looks super realistic and perfect, I don't need to adjust anything at all.

harigeharry

I'm guess I'm saying this:

So that's from the side, where my eyes would be in the middle of the circle. Her body is the orange line. So to get her body upright, I need to change the 'pitch' so her body moves around that circle. But when she's finally upwards, she's floating like a meter above my floor.

And like said, with that 'taste of egypt' video at 3:40, as a comparison, I don't have this problem at all.

Manny_S

harigeharry
i see what you mean
but look at the male performer position, he is almost laying on that chair
so in order to get same perspective you just gotta put yourself in the same position
sadly thats the only way it would work in this case
we could ask @George to get a higher chair perhaps, but if another user with a lower chair will watch this scene for him her leg will be under floor.
thats sadly just a camera heigh and in post we cant change that
for another thing i was talking about i made a simple video sample where you can see how the distance (ipd) between the two background images affect model position and scale as well

harigeharry

Actually I just tried: if I go and sit myself on the floor (instead of in a chair) so I phyiscally lower my eyes about half a meter, then I actually see her walking on my floor in a normal posture. But then the dick is floating like 30-40 cm in the air. And also if she then moves closer, her body kinda 'morphs' I feel something is off.

harigeharry

Actually I now realize, by watching in non PT mode, that at this point the actor was also sitting on the ground (actually on a cushion/low chair it seems). So I guess that for PT to work, you need to take the same position as the actor, so you'd need to sit on the ground (or a low chair) too in this case. And then indeed she walks on my floor correctly. However like said, not sure why the dick is then floating around about 30 cm above mine.

harigeharry

I guess there are two things at play here:

1) My eyes need to be at the same distance from the floor as where the camera was. So if the actor in PT is sitting on a low chair, you'd need to do that too for it to look correct. For example if you stand up, the model of course will always float up in the air since the camera was way lower.
2) The distance between the actor's dick and the camera needs to be the same as the distance between my own eyes and my dick.

Point 1 I can change (by just physically moving up/down), point 2 I can't. I think that's causing the problems I'm experiencing in that part of the movie. Of course I can somewhat 'correct' for all that with the settings but it will just morph the image and will introduce new problems. I'm a tall guy, I'm now speculating that it actually might look better for a small guy.

harigeharry

It's an interesting remark about asking George to use a higher chair. I never even thought about all this stuff, I'm just that guy watching porn LOL. And i'm quite sure that's how it works most of the times and most wont even realize that their eyes need to match the camera's height. So the question then should be, what position does the average guy have when watching VR porn? I'd say he's sitting in a chair most of the times so in that case using a higher chair indeed would make sense.

Picouser

I red throuht this whole tread. Passthroug will be the thing in the future and I am fan of it. I still don't understand why it is so hard to film passthrough videos correctly. I picked up the best points that seems to be problem although they should be obvious to every director.

harigeharry most wont even realize that their eyes need to match the camera's height. So the question then should be, what position does the average guy have when watching VR porn?

takabom "Oh, yeah the stunt is on his knees on a low couch with an extra long seat and the actress is placed on a box in front of him"

Why isn't this still not obvious to directors? This tread people are talking about different IPD etc. nonsense. Why not use common sense instead? You have to decide which positions to use (what fits for average guy) and stick with that (Cowgirl, missionary, doggy etc). Nothing extreme only because you can and are able to do. "Booring" is good in PT. No leaning or much back and forth movement, it has to be in same plane. Be in the center of the screen. Otherwise you get scaling issues and distorsion when users try to correct image.

Deploy "porn filming chcklist". Same method as they use in aviation (flying checklists). This way you can measure and be sure of proper lighting, focus, distance, angle etc. Someone said it is just math ant that is correct. Everything should be measured and checked, no feeling or intuition. Otherwise there is possibility to screw thins up. For example you have to measure how close girl can come to kiss you (don't want crosseyed video) and what is the spot to kiss. Attach some "fake lips" and eyes to the rig and teach girls where to look and kiss properly.

Nothing is so sad as if seeing gorgeous woman in passthrough ruined by left lens out of focus or smudge in the lens (as there has been in StacyQ videos more than one year) or hot girl looking only other lens and kissing your ear or eye instead of lips.

TechnoT5

In a previous post, I believe Manny commented that production is using the same camera and/or lens as earlier Simsense Media releases but I have to question this (please take no offense). With respect to scaling and perspective issues, I would assume that the lens being used is wide angle. Wouldn't a 35-50mm lens be more appropriate?

In contrast to SLR PT videos displaying models too small when further away from the camera, competitor videos have the opposite where the model becomes too large.

Could lens use (focal length) and possibly magnification be what's so different from when these AR PT videos were so great/immersive?

harigeharry

So I just viewed the Cherry Candle scene. Again, the image improvement is a huge step up, really love that! But the first position that the male actor takes (sitting on his lower legs) definitely will be a position most viewers won't have when watching this. So when the viewer needs to rotate the image to correct for that, it all starts to look worse. So again, please make sure that the male actor doesn't use positions like this. I think it's best to stick to only a few positions and sitting on a (normal height!) chair definitely should be the main one. I think @George shoots these, right? So please have that in mind, it would definitely improve things.

Actually I think that until we have real 6DOF available, passtrough video's should limit themselves to only 2 positions, either lying or sitting on a chair. Nobody wants to continually figure out which positions the male actor has and move themselves into uncomfortable positions. And the alternative, manipulating the image via rotation, zoom etc only makes things worse. That never should be necessary.

EDIT Actually I just came across this thread and the topic starter made that exact same suggestion (as some other great ones like not fucking back, that's really a no-go in PT indeed!) https://forum.sexlikereal.com/d/5934-lets-discuss-passthrough-not-a-yay-or-nay-thread

I think if you guys improve on that, your video's are going to be really good.

takabom

harigeharry But the first position that the male actor takes (sitting on his lower legs) definitely will be a position most viewers won't have when watching this

Hehe - this is very much on point. It is a bit comical to be in PT, not able to line things up, turn it off to check the positions and see that "Oh, yeah the stunt is on his knees on a low couch with an extra long seat and the actress is placed on a box in front of him" 😄

George

harigeharry Thanks for the feedback and new chair has been bought 🙂 Just you have to wait a while ... 🙂 😁

harigeharry

George That's just awesome news!! Really looking forward to seeing that change, thanks again!!

harigeharry

George Hey George, I see you bought the new chair! And DAAAAMN this makes a difference! The latest scene, with Chanel Camryn blows everything else away! It's so great what that does to the perspective, everything now just looks great!! When she kneels, her legs are really on the ground, her hands on my legs, all perspective is perfect. It just really looks and feels like she's there. Wow!

The picture quality already was awesome, seems it even got better @Manny_S , really great job.

It's just amazing how you guys managed to improve things. SLR is back at the top of the passthrough game!!

Two minor points of possible improvements:
1) the male actor is leaning back quite a lot when sitting in the chair. I need to do the same to get the dick in the right position, slightly uncomfortable, if possible have the male actor sit up more straight
2) male fucking back, as discussed above, in PT this just does not look good and results in the 'floating dick syndrome' and breaks the immersion. In PT the girl really should do all the work. Like said above, in PT boring is better, don't try to make it too fancy with 'interesting' positions. It just doesn't work in PT.

Anyway congrats on the progress that has been made, it's really awesome to see!

harigeharry

Deploy "porn filming chcklist". Same method as they use in aviation (flying checklists). This way you can measure and be sure of proper lighting, focus, distance, angle etc. Someone said it is just math ant that is correct. Everything should be measured and checked, no feeling or intuition. Otherwise there is possibility to screw thins up.

This indeed is SUPER important for any PT director to realize. This is all about logic, about thinking this through and then make sure to have procedures in place so that everything is optimal. There's no place for 'artistic feelings' or 'intuition' here, that will only mess things up. This is just boring logic. A checklist is an awesome idea. I also really loved the laser pointer idea that someone had above, to attach a laser to the cam and make sure that the dick is always in the right place relative to the camera.

I also love the 'boring is good in PT' strain of thought. That's exactly how the PT director should think. Nothing fancy, just 2 positions for example (sitting and lying), no weird movement by the male actor (even way better, no movement at all, have him lie still like a dead body LOL) and let the actress do all the work. And actually I'm starting to agree, all this is NOT that difficult at all. In the end it's all about understanding how viewers are watching the scene, making sure that the male actor's position matches the viewer's position, that their eyes and dicks are in the same place. And then of course the regular filming techniques like lighting etc that any director should already have. This isn't rocket science.

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