SLRO image look

Vrsumo2017

I was experimenting with the color settings on Deovr more, i didnt know that the "space color" setting affects how the colors are rendered. I initially had mine set to "unmanaged." When I color-corrected a video to my liking and then switched the "space color" setting, the video displayed different shades. It's almost like applying multiple filters to the same video.

I used deovr color correction settings on this video, I like how it came out, I got them nipples looking pink 😍 lol 😆

alphaRonaldo

@Manny_S I've been playing with the different color profies in DeoVR but it's never close to what I'd want. Rec709 does help a bit but is bland for me as well.
Heresphere allows for more fine grained tweaking but that in itself is a learning curve. It gets close but not perfect.
I'm wondering if this is the color theme SLR Originals is going for. Are we to expect this orange tint and always fiddle with the settings and players to get the scene colors right? Considering I'm using the Quest 3 which is the recommended device, I'm asking why is this always necessary?

Comparing how other studios set colors:
With orange tint:
Current SLRO scenes(dull and washed out backgrounds):
1.
2.
VRSpy(Just looks orange and washed out background):
3.
MilfVR(minor tint, nothing serious):
4.
BadoinkVR(tinted but background looks fine):
5.

VRBangers(looks okay)
6.

Without orange tint:
BadoinkVR(I cannot ask for more, this is great):
7.
Old SLRO scenes(food for thought, these were great):
8.
9.
10.
VRColsplayX(another great one):
11.

Laying down these screenshots, it appears like current SLRO backgrounds have become wayy dull and washed out. Compare 1 and 2 with 8, 9, 10. Other studios don't appear to have this washed out colors issue, so a slight orange/warm color looks fine.

FYI: Recent SLRO scenes have improved slightly on sharpness and saturation, comparing what we were getting a few months back.

Hairsational

alphaRonaldo It's great to see someone else noticing this issue, because just about everyone (including the studios themselves) seems to be oblivious. VRSpy in particular has big problems with the tint.

vrpicasso

alphaRonaldo I find it hard to get a real feel for color outside of the headset, even on my calibrated studio monitor, so it's tricky to get a point across about grading by sharing screenshots IMHO.

Every scene from every studio needs some kind of adjustment IMHO. Often it's a washed out grade that looks like LOG footage. I guess it's impossible to achieve a definitive look because headsets have different color profiles and screen technologies so all we can hope for is 10+ bit footage and good tools in the player so we can correct to taste and set up presets. Tools which DEO lacks, honestly.

Some kind of auto-color/contrast feature should be possible in the player, really. Would be a good use of AI.

Manny_S

alphaRonaldo
rec709 should be default color profile for SLR scenes as thats the color profile in post processing
lets not dive too much into the details of the color profile, i'd just say that we've researched that matter and we settled on rec709 as currently most suitable.
we still have enough space to fiddle with colors that we have in raw canon log before we bake it into rec709.

Firstly i want to agree that this image bellow with Claire Roos isnt the best
it was one of the first scenes we started doing color correction differently:
in this specific case white balance is off and the skin color isn't right
i will check with the team on why this happened

Now, i don't seem to quite understand your point if you are comparing only one scene from many scenes from different studios that have different color grading and even refer to the old SLRO scenes that you say were great, but from my opinion have quite washed out colors.

If we to make a comparison please do it like this:
Select at least 5 latest scenes from each studio and put them together

Lets go by the order.

SLRO
In the scene #5 with Emma Hix it doesn't seem to me that something is wrong.
Instead i think her skin color is good.
There are many different skin tones, we try to keep it as real as possible but fitting them all to one doesn't seam reasonable to me.
#1 Blake Blossom.
I think she was just tanned.
You can check it on her twitter post in the video https: //x.com/sexlikereal/status/1825278496836587970
Do you want to remove her real tan?
#2 Myra Moans.
I think she is just white like that.
Do you want her skin to be different color then real?
#3,4,5
Looks fine to me
Vrspy scenes are not SLRO scenes and i can't answer for their post production.
But i can see the tint.
MilfVR
Screenshot i made are from milfvr website, sorted by latest.
Lets take a look:
- The skin color does look pretty consistent
- the background - i wouldnt say that every scene has interesting and not "Dull" background.
  scene 1,2,3,7 background is regular
- image looks a bit washed out to me and remind of old SLRO scenes

Badoink
these screenshots are from badoink vrporn page sorted by latest

The top row 1-5 seem a bit orange to me, dont you think?
And the bottom row 7-10 have pink tink
#6 is white
#11 wont comment that. you can see why.

Badoink again but now from their website
as they dont seem to have free preview i took a screenshots from what is available

#1,2, 4, 5 looks fine with some tint on #4 lower pictures which looks to be magenta tinted
#3 also magenta and some yellow tint on lower picture
however i would need a better quality pictures to give it more precise look

Old SLRO scenes

These old SLRO scenes look similar to MilfVR image to me
But MilVR has more consistent white balance and skin tone
It happened so that i wasnt a part of SLR back then when those scenes were produced and i can't tell how they were graded.
One thing i know is that those scenes were filmed on ZCAM camera which doesnt have Canon Log and doesnt provide with such freedom in dynamic range and color.
It is still a good camera with good picture when used properly and if there is enough light and the footage can be color graded to some extent.
If you ask me - i wouldn't call those scenes as an example.
The color are mostly washed out.
The pink tint on #4,5,6,8,10
Yellow tint on #1bottom, 4, 7 mostly due to light conditions
And i dont know if you care about it but its 6K. Personally i find those scenes slightly oversharpened.
Need to check other studios's image quality with same look in VR to tell if there is a tradeoff between an overall look and picture quality.

But for now i'd make a IMO (in my opinion) conclusion:

Any studio has better or worse scenes. Consistency is a key, i agree.
Yes, some studios's scenes are getting better and we are doing our best to keep our content quality great as well.
It's a competition and it's a healthy instrument for growth.
The feedback that all of you provide is very important for us and we (me personally as well) are always checking it and thinking on how and what can be improved.

What you stated here ⬇️ is the result of listening to the feedback of the users like you who want best and we want best for you too.

alphaRonaldo FYI: Recent SLRO scenes have improved slightly on sharpness and saturation, comparing what we were getting a few months back.

We will keep improving the content quality further and i'm sure you will soon see desired results.

rerun119

vrpicasso I agree that maybe we all see it differently and are using different headset. I do agree with @alphaRonaldo that the older SLR scenes from a couple of years ago looked a lot better.
There does seem to be a consensus when someone points out that a scene is over done in one way or another. I see people agreeing but never arguing the other way

alphaRonaldo

vrpicasso It does get tricky, I agree. But these screenshots translate pretty well to what I've been consistently noticing in headset.
And seeing others with this same issue, it does merit delving deeper. @doublevr @Manny_S
Granted, there were improvements in past few months as I've mentioned, but it's not all the way there. 1 and 2 need some more work. Further A-B testing would help here.

Hairsational

rerun119 and nothing from SLR staff

rerun119

Manny_S I'm not an expert and I notice scaling more than colors when I watch a scene so this is just thoughts when I watch.
I think Milfvr and the old SLR scenes look better. To me they look natural, like I was there. The new SLR scenes look blurrier to me. Look at #1 and #3 from SLRO compared to Milfvr and old SLRO scenes. Even if its 8k vr whatever, doesn't have that real life look. Maybe washed out would be another way of saying it.
I don't know how to say what my brain sees. All I know is that the other 2 look better to my eyes.
Good luck

alphaRonaldo

Manny_S Hey, I really appreciate taking the time out and considering this seriously. I know some details I've shared would be subjective and difficult to describe per se, and by no means am I an expert at color science. These were the observations based on what I've noticed as an end user.

Glad you agree on the Claire Roose scene. I'd say it would be amazing if there's any possibility of rework on colors of such already released scenes. Would really push for rewatchability.

Manny_S Now, i don't seem to quite understand your point if you are comparing only one scene from many scenes from different studios that have different color grading and even refer to the old SLRO scenes that you say were great, but from my opinion have quite washed out colors.

Overall, I've found studios such as BadoinkVR having better colors(or color grading as you say).
Even if we eleminate other studios, and stick to 8k(which gets iffy as most SLRO color issues came in with the 8k setup), older SLRO scenes really had better colors IMHO. Compare new with old. Try watching them in headset, you'll see the difference.
The older one is more realistic, with better colors for the leaves of the plant, her eyeshadow, her lips are pink, I can go on and on. Can't comment on other technical details but this is what I see.
Newer one just has this sort of orange/brown filter, washing out and muting other colors.

Manny_S #1 Blake Blossom.
I think she was just tanned.
You can check it on her twitter post in the video https: //x.com/sexlikereal/status/1825278496836587970
Do you want to remove her real tan?
#2 Myra Moans.
I think she is just white like that.
Do you want her skin to be different color then real?
#3,4,5
Looks fine to me

Lets agree to disagree here. I don't have any issues with skin tone here. Just the tint/filter. Rather, I liked the Blake Blossom scene as the saturation was better. Not color wise though.

With some of the other studios, they have also started picking up on this orange/brown tint with washed out colors. This is what I've already mentioned in one of my initial posts. Can be anything with the camera to the post production.

Manny_S Badoink again but now from their website
as they dont seem to have free preview

Hey, you can add /trailer at the end of video URL to watch the free preview.

All in all, my suggestion would be to take a few polls to eliminate the subjectiveness of it and test out further with the colors.
We know SLR has got it to be the best VR site. Just needs a bit more care and attention.

Again, appreciate what you do.
Thanks

Hairsational

rerun119 That blur (focus issue??) has been around since the 8K transition. I don't know how more people haven't noticed it. The resolution is higher, but the image isn't as crisp. Then you have SLR using sharpening filters is post production to try and improve it but it just ends up giving the video an artificial look (over-sharpened??). The 8K has always looked worse than the 6K SLR Originals to me.

Manny_S

alphaRonaldo Compare new with old. Try watching them in headset, you'll see the difference.

yes, there is a difference i observed and loved the sharpness of those several old scenes
i can share with you more of the scenes where i noticed great sharpness of the image and fine details.
i was working on those scenes at that time:
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/karaoke-night-28941 at the end of this scene you can notice out of focus part
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/movie-night-28315
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/big-black-tits-28255

I know why those scenes were sharper
Production at that time was setting aperture of the lens at 5.6
and the image is sharpest at that point
you can read about the effects here
and here

the tricky part here is that the focus at 5.6 is quite narrow and you have to be very carefull at every position and check the focus with every change of position
you can also notice that background is blurrier because it is not in focus
the issue with aperture 5.6 is that it is easy to miss the focus if you not very attentive and forget to change the focus
that happened several times already on several scenes, not only US scenes
i sadly cannot dictate the rules for production
so production decided to switch to the aperture 8
with aperture 8 you get a wider distance from the camera in focus and its harder to miss the focus
and as you can see there is a tradeoff to that

besides production part im not sure how many releases other studios have per week
but with previous and current quantity of the produced SLRO scenes we have to fit into release schedule
that requires us to think on the most proficient workflow that allows us to process enough scenes per week and at the same time preserve decent quality
there are many other nuances that regular users not aware of
such as codecs that we use to process the scenes
that we have 2-3 stages of the post processing
that there is a final transcoding on the server that limits bitrate to around 30 mbs
that some codecs preserve more quality but slower in processing
we researched that over the years and came to one universal solution
but it was already changed several times and we are again rethinking it
that all takes time and effort
together with responsibility of keeping the releases steady

of one thing i can mention for some thoughts is that "best" way to preserver quality of the video is to first denoise it and then apply color
to denoise it first and to keep the close to original color information of the video you have to encode to uncompressed formats such as prores
which just for the record would take around 30-35 hours per 20 minutes video on the best configuration computers that we currently have, latest gpu 4090, almost latest cpu's and motherboard and 60-120 gb ram
graphic cards are not involved as much when encoding to proress to it take that long
now if we split the scene to several computers lets say 3 that is still 30-35 hours for 1 hour scene
thats only one step
it goes after initial editing, qa, sound, correction and then denoise step
for the record one 1 hour scene files size is around 1 TB
you have to somehow copy that to those 3 computers or use local server that would provide sufficient bandwidth to allow you reading the files from 3 computers at the same time
the files produced after denoise to uncompressed formats is around 1GB per 1 second
thats 60gb per 1 minute
and 3.6TB per one hour scene
transferring such huge files between computers... ok, you got the point with the server i guess

After denoise there has to be either color correction or stereo correction or both at the same time
now if we make color correction separately it is another step and another uncompressed files which has to be accessible for the next step somehow

If we to make stereo correction and color correction that would increase the render time to about 1 day per scene
this step encodes the result into a compressed .mp4 format and it slightly reduces the quality as any encoding does if not to uncompressed

then dont forget another transcoding with happens on the slr server

i lost my thoughts train somewhere here
but there's a lot more i could explain on as many version we tested and their pro's and con's
but as a conclusion:
the current pipeline that we have is currently the best in terms of time/quality
there are some tradeoffs in production and post production
it is not like that just because we don't care
but it is like that because we came to that point through tests and current requirements

Still im again making one more research and hopefully it will give us some better results

rerun119

Hairsational Some of the newer videos look pretty bad from my end. I know nothing about saturation and all of that. I just know that some of them I just skip them once I see it looks blurry.
The latest Blake blossom video looks blurry and everything looks too bright. I love Blake but I wasn't about to spend the time looking at that picture.

Just think how good all these videos would have been if they would have used the old camera. I really think this is why the older scenes are so much better. Everything got worse with the change.
How good would VRHush, FuckPass, and VirtualRealPorn be if they didn't get that horrible 8k camera. I don't even think the images look better but the scale is terrible.

alphaRonaldo

rerun119 I notice the sharpness issue too. Other studios have focus on the foreground or background based on the closeness of the shot. SLRO doesn't have the focus on either of these.
Eventually I'd adjust the sharpness filter in DeoVR or Heresphere to get it somewhat watchable. It's things like this that make the experience worse.
Why couldn't have this been done before it reached us viewers? Before releasing, there had to be some checks in headset. I suppose this isn't the case.

And isn't it the Canon R5C that's used here for 8k. Something has gone horribly wrong for so many studios messing up.

fenderwq

Manny_S Very interesting read, I always quoted https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/big-black-tits-28255 when mentioning some of the best video quality I ever seen on a SLR scene (although it had some scale issues).

That quality was such a standout to me at the time that I mentioned it often. I remember I thought the camera hack was the reason for the lower quality/sharpness down the line but the aperture explains so much. Other studios like VR Allure had a few far sharper scenes like that back in the day too. They must have done something similar. Annoying really, cause an out of focus scene is often ruined but the quality difference is pretty huge when done right.

Also, weird all these studios still have to use this Canon camera that is so hard to operate and has a weird ipd. You'd expect there to be more of a choice in VR camera's by now. Like with a good ipd, ease of use and form factor at a somewhat reasonable price for a compony. I mean how hard can it be to implement good autofocus with AI or something for a company like Canon?

Also hoping Nvidia will finally up the maximum decodable resolution on their GPU's this generation so companies will innovate and push the envelope of their VR camera's again. I mean for instance the fm duo 12k. Just having a larger resolution censor can make a huge difference even if it's only used for 8k. Can't wait to see what porn would look like once camera's like this scale down: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/release/20240611-02. I mean that's 16320x7200@90fps. Absolutely crazy.

alphaRonaldo

Manny_S yes, there is a difference i observed and loved the sharpness of those several old scenes
i can share with you more of the scenes where i noticed great sharpness of the image and fine details.
i was working on those scenes at that time:
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/karaoke-night-28941 at the end of this scene you can notice out of focus part
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/movie-night-28315
https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/big-black-tits-28255

Glad we could agree on a few details about the older scenes. These ones are great as well.

Certainly an interesting read on the depth of field due to aperture and the efforts in the post processing work, thanks for sharing these details.

Hopefully we get to see better scenes in the coming months.

Hairsational

Manny_S Surely you don't have to output a new file after every step of the pipeline. That sounds like a horribly inefficient way to process a video.

Manny_S

and i already found one bottleneck of quality loss
and as i said, takes longer to process, but not as long as the last best quality version
we now have a hope for better quality of regular and PT scenes 💪

Manny_S

alphaRonaldo quick visual sample of differences
the irony is that this gif is compressed too and doesnt show the exact difference but you can see it anyway
these slight fine details are being lost with every step
but now i think we solved it

alphaRonaldo

Manny_S kinda hard to tell right away with the gif. Appreciate it though.

Manny_S

Hairsational what would be an efficient way then? to make stereo correction, denoise, alpha rendering from the raw footage?

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