Production & Post-production Feedback

vrpicasso

Seated cowgirl can be amazing but it's hard to shoot. 3 big mistakes that are made:

camera too close to tits (this is SO COMMON with SLRO), so we can't see much of the face and we're looking up the model's nostrils and penetration is also obscured. Typically, SLRO gets cam-cock distance correct so the answer is not to just move the cam further from penetration but to change the angles, so instead of hovering the cam above the guy's cock he leans back and we get a better view of the whole girl.
Lighting - I like to see details in penetration and this may need a small LED just for that purpose. And when it comes to lighting obviously maintain the same exposure whether girl is near or far, which means not having the key too close.
Open up - seated cowgirl where the girl just grinds without opening up and showing us penetration sucks. The absolute hottest scenario is when the model really focuses on showing us the action. Here's the key - PUSSY FORWARD, PELVIS BACK.

Examples:
BAD - TOO NEAR TITS, looking up nostrils, head too near top of frame, pelvis forward - pussy back, can't see penetration and there's a skirt in the way for an extra barrier. This is typical for SLRO.

GOOD - We have good visibility of face, tits and penetration, and ample light everywhere. Pelvis back, pussy forward - this should be your mantra. This scene had some overexposure on the chest and face but not bad enough to spoil it.

GOOD - For more intimacy, the model can move her head closer, so long as penetration is still clear (tricky to achieve!). I imagine this position might suit experienced models like Pristine, who can get that pussy/pelvis position and still perform naturally. I like this position as it's extremely intense, but only as a transition as the viewer has to move their head up and down a fair distance to see face and pussy. The head is still not too near the top of the frame and we're not looking up nostrils, the head is not distorted like in the top example.

GOOD - I really like this position as we see everything without even moving our head. It's not as intimate as the previous shot but it's more comfortable to view. Penetration visibility is excellent. Requires more strength in the model though, and something for the model to lean back onto. One negative is the face may get slightly soft at this distance due to optimum focal distance of the rig, especially with taller models.

So basically, we need to see everything, with good light, without distortion and without breaking our necks.

Thanks you for attending my seated cowgirl Ted talk.

Will65

vrpicasso I was with you until that last "good" picture. Lean-back cowgirl should be banned for all time.

dango789

vrpicasso Great post! If directors consistently featured all three of the "good" positions on your screenshots, there'd be something for everyone. Intimate shots with a good view of the face, a fuller body view that lets us simultaneously see the face, the body and penetration and finally, a position that emphasised the legs for those who appreciate legs.

Vrsumo2017

vrpicasso GOOD - We have good visibility of face, tits and penetration, and ample light everywhere. Pelvis back, pussy forward

Jillian did an awesome seated cg in
Your Adorable Neighbor

rerun119

mirdumar Exactly, the same question. Whatever it is in the pipeline that is different now than before they should fix. But I have no idea what it is.

Vatsyayana

g2kbuffetboy I also love armpits but I gotta agree that for me personally the appeal is more visual and the dirty talk isn't that interesting

I find it really erotic when it's during missionary and the implication is that the girls are so worked up that they start to lick each other's armpits. The visual of the arms raised also emphasizes the size of the girl's torso, which looks really great imo

fenderwq

g2kbuffetboy I don't mind to have some kinks I'm not into (like feet and armpits) every now and then (hey, I wish there was more of the kinks I like like face licking and cum play in vr). It's just that lately the armpit fetish is done way too much imo and personally it really takes me out a scene. It's also not as easy to skip as like a foot job and often is combined with some of my favorite parts. So yeah, sorry man, but I'm also voting for toning it down some...

bacula8630

I was just taking a look at the latest SLR Original, “Surprising My Boyfriend with a Threesome”, starring Octavia Red and Penelope Kay.

I noticed it’s filmed in the same room and produced by the same guy that did RealJamVR’s scene, “Spying on Stepdaughter” starring Kiara Cole.

He has also shot numerous POVR scenes in the same room. The latest being “A Stepbrother’s Guide to the Sleepover” starring Maria Kazi.

Even though these scenes were shot by the same director using the same rig. The image quality is not equal. The SLRO has noticeably worse image quality. Yes, the RJVR and POVRO are both offered at 7K resolution. While the SLRO is 6K. But I don’t think that is enough to explain the difference I’m seeing.

First off, the SLRO is zoomed out slightly making scale smaller than normal. This also introduces barrel distortion. Which you can see in the closet doors to the left. The lines are not straight. I need to zoom into 1.10x to straighten out the geometry. Which also brings the scale equal to the POVR and RJVR scenes.

I also see noticeable ringing on edges. It looks like additional sharpening is being applied to the SLRO scene. Not sure if it is though. The SLRO picture also lacks fine detail in things like pores in the skin, textures in fabric, etc.

The POVRO uses a bitrate around 45mb/s. The SLRO around 30mb/s. Not sure about the RJVR. I have the “Original” version downloaded. Which has a bitrate of 125mb/s. Not sure what it is on the standard 7K file.

Are these discrepancies in bit rate enough to explain the image quality differences? I don’t know. I don’t know enough about SLR’s post production workflow to say either way.

All I know is that the SLRO image quality is worse. Assuming the director is using the same settings and filming techniques, I would take a hard look at the post production workflow. I don’t know enough about the SLR workflow or enough about post production in general to offer any solution. I’m just reporting what I’m seeing.

Thank you for reading.

spacepirate

bacula8630 Are these discrepancies in bit rate enough to explain the image quality differences? I don’t know.

no.. not alone. povr has better post prod and/or a better camera.

rerun119

bacula8630 All the scenes from SLR now have a weird image thing going on to me.

I just watched this scene "grey-clouds-crystal-shop" and if you move your head then you can see the barrel of the image moving. If that makes since. It's just not clear. They all have it now. The image is not fluid at all. I think it has to be post production at this point. The old ones never had this problem.

Evan_Redstar

rerun119 can you please give me time code.

LordCrash

Will65 No, definitely not. It's damn good.

vrpicasso

Will65 lean-back cowgirl gives us the best view without moving the headset, so I'm a fan, although I do like a mixture of CG positions so long as they're all shot well.

bacula8630

I just downloaded the revised version Alex Nash’s Classical Trio.

First off, Kiara’s name is spelled incorrectly during the title sequence. I never noticed before but appears to have been misspelled in all three versions.

Secondly, the image geometry still isn’t being corrected properly. The image still has barrel distortion and scale is too small. If I zoom the image to 1.10x then the doors off to the right become straight and scale looks correct. But of course, image sharpness takes a hit.

I’m watching on Quest Pro/Link cable to PC, DeoVR desktop version.

bacula8630

Hmm…Are the doors straight off to the right?

Are you watching using DeoVR on the headset? Maybe the headset version of the app is different from the desktop version?

bacula8630

Thanks for the reply.

Maybe it’s just an SLR thing. But most studios correct the field geometry so lines are straight throughout the image. Even at the peripheries.

I do remember people complaining that unless you watched on DeoVR/SLR app, SLR fisheye scenes didn’t play properly on other players. And had significant distortion. But I’m watching an SLR scene on SLR’s official app. I would think that the field geometry would be corrected properly.

Maybe it’s always been like that and I’ve never noticed? I have to head out to work soon but maybe I’ll dust off my Quest 2 tonight and see if it’s a Quest Pro thing.

Appreciate the info.

bacula8630

Thanks!

Hunky-Dory I watched it on Quest 2 Pigasus app with my FOV set at 220 and the walls and doors were almost perfectly straight

I don’t know too much about the Pigasus app. But I think this backs up my observations.

Since this scene is output at 200 degree fisheye. I think that should correspond to an FOV set at 200 on Pigasus.

Setting at 220 would effectively zoom in on the image correcting the barrel distortion and making the scale larger. Just like when I zoomed into 1.10x on DeoVR.

The fact that you needed to change the FOV to 220 says to me that playing the scene at default settings would yield a similar experience to what I’m see on DeoVR.

That’s just a guess though. I don’t really use Pigasus even though I have it downloaded. Maybe I’ll take a look at it tonight.

Appreciate the follow up info!

Fapmaster17

So glad to hear your initial thoughts as I am a huge fan of Kylie. Can't wait to check it out myself 😍

bacula8630

Well, I checked Classical Trio on the Quest 2. Streaming and downloaded versions. Looks exactly the same as on the Quest Pro. The barrel distortion is still there. So I checked the other recent 2900p 200 degree fisheye scenes and they also have barrel distortion.

So I checked some older 2900p fisheye scenes. And it’s the same. Some scenes it’s more obvious. Sometimes less. So, I guess it’s always been there. Perhaps it’s just a result of the fisheye presentation.

There are SLRO scenes like Spanish Lullaby and The Angel Trials when @Evan_Redstar was still DP on set that the distortion is virtually non existent. At the same time, scenes like Sexual Alchemy Creamy Pie do have barrel distortion. So who knows.

Anyways, I still say that the distortion isn’t corrected properly. I don’t know if it’s a fisheye thing. But there are studios that do a better job eliminating it. But, if the staff are happy with it. And they think it’s good enough. Who am I to argue.

I won’t bring it up anymore.

Evan_Redstar

bacula8630 maybe it's because mastering was done by different people. Most likely I did it for Sexual Alchemy. Spanish Lullaby and The Angel Trials was done by our guru who did stiching for most of the scenes. My preset was a bit different from scale part, so maybe here is a reason why it's getting distorted a bit.

rerun119

Evan_Redstar There is no time codes. It's the whole scene. And it's not just this scene. It's most of the new ones.
If I move my head around from left to right. The images in the left and right lens seem to be a little off. You can see the image roll like it's warped. I don't know how to describe it. The old 6k videos from 2 years ago were perfect. If you moved your head around the image was clear and looked static. It looked like a solid picture like it should look. Now the image looks like it is aways correcting itself. It like the edges are warped but the middle is not, so when you move your head you can see the image going from warped to not warped. I hope this all makes since.
I know nothing about editing but IMO you should use the presets from 2 years ago

Evan_Redstar

mirdumar Both this scenes was shoot by me. From October 2021 Alex got new Director of Photography., because I moved out from production. Post-production is the same for both scenes. I don't really like updated CC on Giana's scene but in original version it's looks good for me.

bacula8630

Evan_Redstar maybe it's because mastering was done by different people. Most likely I did it for Sexual Alchemy. Spanish Lullaby and The Angel Trials was done by our guru who did stiching for most of the scenes. My preset was a bit different from scale part, so maybe here is a reason why it's getting distorted a bit.

Thanks for the info Evan.

It’s interesting that different editors used different presets. I would have thought once you guys found settings that worked the best. You would share that preset across the editing team. So you would get the most consistent product scene to scene. Regardless of who worked on it.

As far as the barrel distortion goes, it seems only crazy people like myself think it’s an issue. I get a little OCD sometimes. So forgive me harping on about it.

You guys do good work. And the scenes are excellent.

bacula8630

Hunky-Dory Sorry, i probably didn't say it very clearly, but 220 FOV in Pigasus is just a personal setting for me that i use for SLR Fisheye / MX200 scenes as it seems to suit my brain and eyes and is very much a 'Personal preference' and probably not for everyone and advise for users to try different settings to suit them as 200 FOV also looks good.

Thanks for the clarification. I tried the Pigasus app last night as well. Looks about the same as DeoVR in terms of distortion.

It seems that most people don’t really notice or care about the distortion. So I’m just gonna let it go.

Appreciate the help though.

spacepirate

bacula8630 you aint crazy.. its bugging me too

bacula8630

Lol Unfortunately, we seem to be in the minority.

It’s by no means a deal breaker though. Just thought the staff should know.

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