Bitrate comparison test

Lenovo

mirdumar As far as l know all the 8k from vrhush is around 50mbps,and the pictures do not look like 8k

mirdumar

Lenovo
On their site bitrates are either 45 or 90, on SLR they are 30 or 90.

It doesn't look like 8K because i cut everything else beside the face, so it's easier to compare, but it is 8K, you can download the scene in question and compare.

Lenovo

mirdumar Thanks l am not questioning your opinion that high bitrate is better.

Ventriloquist_Tacos

To me the gigantic original files are hit and miss as to if I can see the difference on my Reverb G2. That being said, the very best Original file videos I've ever seen have been a few SLR Originals in 8k. One particular one blows me away still. It has popping colors and background and foreground resolution. Not sure what it is specifically about that scene, but I pasted below.

https://www.sexlikereal.com/scenes/laundry-day-27037

Note: I have a G2 connected to an RTX 4080 system. If I remember correctly this original file size studdered badly on Q2 wireless, so power and cable connection is likely a limiting factor.

fenderwq

Ventriloquist_Tacos That's because that's one of the SLR scenes shot with the Canon rc5. This is the same camera VrAllure and FuckPassVR use (among others).
Even though the camera seems to produce varying results (it's apparently very hard to shoot with) when done right it has the absolute best image clarity / quality. It's also a true 8k camera (8192x4069 or 8000x4000 for the SLR scenes).
So, yeah, I agree, I noticed that too.

doublevr

To make it easier for you guys Zcam K1 Pro and K2 Pro have exactly the same resolution. The main difference is amateur vs professional sensor that gives you much better image at almost the same specs (bitrate is still higher there, but it's secondary).

Our great @Sandi_SLR is working on a post outlining the whole bitrate business. I can assure you are going to get surprised

LordCrash

"Funny" how that promising thread ended with a one-liner in another thread with the exact same generalized statement we've already heard so many times before....

doublevr Our great @Sandi_SLR is working on a post outlining the whole bitrate business. I can assure you are going to get surprised

Nobody is actually surprised and now it's not needed anymore. You've already said that you don't care so case closed. Everyone looking for high quality downloads (and streams...) got rected again by SLR. Thanks for nothing.

spacepirate

mirdumar using gifs to highlight the differences isnt good because gifs have a very limited color palette

Rakly3 Increasing the bitrate of our files will not automatically translate into better image quality.

yes it will (unless you intentionally use some stupid settings to increase the bitrate without a corresponding increase in quality)

Rakly3 Changing from
I-B-P-B-I
to
I-P-P-P-I
can increase quality with a smaller increase to bitrate than simply doubling or tripling the bitrate.

b frames have better coding efficiency... especially for vr content. replacing b frames with p frames will increase bitrate requirement to achieve the same quality so chances are that your example would decrease quality compared to if you just kept b frames and increased bitrate.

Rakly3 If we increase our bitrate, then certain users will have to stream the 6K version instead of the 8K version. Because their internet is too slow fo the higher bitrate 8K.

so the majority of customers should suffer with low quality 8k because a few people with dialup speed connections want to stream 8k? makes total sense... btw median internet connection speed in the us (probably slr's biggest market) is way higher than the appallingly low 22 mbps slr is encoding 8k videos at.

mirdumar

using gifs to highlight the differences isnt good because gifs have a very limited color palette

Sorry, it's animated webp, i wrote gif by mistake.

SchnuppiLilac

spacepirate so the majority of customers should suffer with low quality 8k because a few people with dialup speed connections want to stream 8k? makes total sense

This could be easily solved by offering two types of 8K for streaming (e.g. 22 and 50 mbps) to make everyone happy. Some studios have this and they call it 8K HD + 8K UHD or 8K medium + 8K high.

bobbytables

I'm genuinely baffled that SLR staff are arguing that bitrate doesn't matter. Super weird considering the video production industry has had this figured out for literal decades. Compressed 4k blu-rays are put out at 128Mbits/s and initial capture on films is literally Gbits/s but 6k and 8k vr content? sure that should definitely be 30Mbits because "bitrate doesn't matter".

doublevr

LordCrash there was a ton of internal research involving 10 of our best minds to analyze the every aspect of it. Takes time to put things together. A lot will be clear

doublevr

Streams are actually the best of the best quality.

Bottomline 8k 200mbps is an easy way for editors to get the best downloads quality. Then that file is used to create streaming files by super advanced 30mbps max variable bitrate encodings that takes a week for each video.

These streaming encodings are magic. The quality is on pars with 200mbps original file for most scenes.

We can do smaller size downloads using the same advanced encodings, but it would take too much of resources. Thus we only do it for streaming which is our primary focus for a million reasons.

bobbytables

doublevr Dude, there have already been people that proved your 30mbps compression is chopping out data. also: WHY in the world are you shooting 8k at 200mbps. That's an insanely low bitrate for footage, like crazy low. You should be approaching gbps at 8k. That explains why your video quality is so low. For reference, my cheap old fuji XH1 shoots 200mbps for 4k footage and that in no way is considered a professional camera.

this one comment by you explains so much of the reduced video quality.

mirdumar

Streams are actually the best of the best quality.

Bottomline 8k 200mbps is an easy way for editors to get the best downloads quality. Then that file is used to create streaming files by super advanced 30mbps max variable bitrate encodings that takes a week for each video.

These streaming encodings are magic. The quality is on pars with 200mbps original file for most scenes.

hahahhaha, you are trolling us, aren't you?

If not i don't know what to tell you, i already posted two animated webs they clearly show that there is a loss in quality.

Here i reposted one of them again, just look how much detail is lost on her forehead, eyes, under her eyes, nose, and around the nose. hair, lips, basically her whole face.

Comparison is between 8K 30mbps and Original 8K 90mbps. Scene is Aubree Valentine "Consumated Passion" from VRHush.

spacepirate

doublevr Streams are actually the best of the best quality.

demonstrably false. slr has the lowest streaming bitrates of any major site. and no.. your "super advanced 30mbps max variable bitrate encodings" (in reality constant bitrate) are not higher quality than content from other sites.

We can do smaller size downloads using the same advanced encodings, but it would take too much of resources. Thus we only do it for streaming which is our primary focus for a million reasons.

encoding 1 extra hq file for new slro scenes is barely any additional resources

SchnuppiLilac

doublevr These streaming encodings are magic. The quality is on pars with 200mbps original file for most scenes.

The individual perception of video quality is perhaps also magical. 'On par' probably depends on what you are paying attention to. For my part, the best streaming file quality as it is now is perfectly fine for clothing, furniture, wallpapers or floors. But for close-up skin texture, I don't buy that taking away 60-80 % of the data (from a file that is not the original camera file but has already undergone some data reduction in post-production) will make no difference at all. You will clearly see the difference if you have a thing for skin texture looking as real and crisp as possible. The animated picture of @mirdumar is a good representation of this difference.

I can accept the business decision of SLR to not invest resources into encoding additional intermediate bitrates files. But justifying this by saying that due to some kind of magic 30 mbps can be encoded from 200 without the slightest loss in perceived quality, so you wouldn't notice the difference anyway? I am not convinced.

rerun119

mirdumar Thats a big difference. Her hair is fuzzy with the 30mbps

Sandi_SLR

Hey, I will follow up today, just wanted to be sure to not bullshit you, so we did many tests.
Will try to clear if I can post all the samples we did.

bobbytables

Sandi_SLR you'd be better off now explaining why you are shooting 8k at only 200mbps. That's insanely low quality for 8k footage. it's barely acceptable to shoot 4k at 200mbps and even then that's on the low end.

Sandi_SLR

bobbytables Hey, we are not shooting at that bitrate, our post production exports at that bitrate before it goes to transcoder to get all the streaming versions.

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