Bitrate comparison test

doublevr

Our Unity teamlead is killing it:

we can and we have it in plans (no timeline yet), first we need to do a proper research on what would be the best approach. I would like that caching is supported on all platforms and has the flexibility on how and what we want to cache. Either we find a solution that already provides this or we implement it ourselves, but that will take some time to do it properly.

That's the spirit 🔥

doublevr

I've watched Original bitrate (which is super laggy and makes the app to crash) vs SLR encoding on Quest Pro. There's a visible difference. Not a game changer, but some improvement for sure. We really want to fix it

It's not okay to provide overbitrated download files and underbitrated for streaming. It served us well for up to 6K videos. It's time to update now.

I don't think we want ultra high bitrate download files we called "Original" either

SchnuppiLilac

doublevr Sounds good! As far as I am concerned, I do not need or even want bitrates above 90 Mbit/sec for SLRO original files (a recent one had 190). On the other hand, the FuckPassVR or VRAllure original files have bitrates of approx. 89 Mbit/sec (Source: https://www.sexlikereal.com/virtualreality/mosaic/id/30283, https://www.sexlikereal.com/virtualreality/mosaic/id/32126) and I never had issues playing them on Q2, so I hope you will not remove these HQ files.

fenderwq

doublevr Good to hear that SLR is on it to improve this! This will probably even be more visible on some of the upcoming headsets like the crystal so it's also some future proofing right there.
Personally I wouldn't download the originals anymore if there was a higher bit rate version available. However, I must say, I'm still glad that the originala are there. It's just a nice escape hatch for when you feel the encoding is not optimal or when you want to make sure.

mirdumar

FuckpassVR, VRHush and LethalHardcoreVR Original bitrates are 90mbps, files are not too big (around 25GB) and quality is great.
SLR Original sometimes go over 190mbps with file size up to 100GB.

someoneX

mirdumar FuckpassVR, VRHush and LethalHardcoreVR Original bitrates are 90mbps

90Mbps is a little bit high, but at least FuckpassVR and VRHush also offer 45Mbps as alternative on their website.

CzechVR uses 60 or 80Mpbs depending on the scene. For most other studios 60/62Mbps is the maximum they use for 7/8K scenes, so I guess something between 55Mbps and 75Mpbs would be a good compromise between size and quality.

Rakly3

Every one here assumes more bitrate = more better
Many even believe more K = more better

g2kbuffetboy

For SLR's current 6k vids: 60Mbps
For SLR's future 8k/9k vids: 90Mbps

spacepirate

g2kbuffetboy id like to see 40 mbps for the lower quality/streaming 8k versions instead of the current 22 or 30. 40 is high enough for the image quality to look acceptable at that resolution and low enough to not be wasting too much bandwidth and to work without buffering delays for people with 50 mbps internet connections.

Rakly3

g2kbuffetboy We're going to have a lot of complaints and cancelations I guess.

There are users who don't even have the possibility to get a connection fast enough for 30Mbps

doublevr

edit: sorry, got the wrong links

SchnuppiLilac

doublevr The Max Q file is 4x larger but bitrate and fps are the same? Why is that?

spacepirate

SchnuppiLilac hes trying to play us for fools again. the videos are totally identical but the max q one has exactly 600mb of random data appended to the end of it to make it bigger.

mirdumar

Yeah despite being 4X larger bitrates are the same, MediaInfo shows this for MAX_Q file "Stream size: 259 MiB (30%)", and this for 30M file "Stream size: 259 MiB (99%), so i would assume, as they have same stream size, that files are the same, only MAX_Q has some junk data in it or something.

MediaInfo shows that they have same encoding settings, also for MAX_Q it shows "IsTruncated: Yes", that only happens when file is not expected size, or is corrupted, etc.

Sandi_SLR

Hey guys, we went into full research mode today, trying to figure out the difference between original file and max streaming one that we provide for download, the difference is there but miniscule.
The example we used, granted, did not have a full frame of moving things, so lets say it was average content.
We will continue to test on "harder" examples like some harem scene, where the girls are all around the camera.
Will keep you updated with our findings.

Also we have a memory leak with playing original files, we will fix this, so you can watch them too.

Can I ask who are we actually addressing here, the people watching downloaded files, or people watching porn by streaming?

doublevr

Sandi_SLR let's get all the files and images into a separate post. I'll lock this one

We really want to clear this once and for all

bobbytables

Sandi_SLR both hopefully. I'd like to see downloaded files at their maximum visual fidelity, and for streaming to be greatly improved.

Rakly3

Sandi_SLR Netflix has a tool for quantifying image quality.

https://github.com/Netflix/vmaf

Which should close the debate about bitrate, which is no measure of quality. That's ridiculous.
You don't decide how good a cook is by how tall they are.

There's 1000 variables that influence this.
Most of all, complexity of the image and complexity level of the codec.
Both of these determine the macroblocks and temporal vectors.

L6 encoding will yield a smaller bitrate of the same video encoded at L4 at equal quality.

someoneX

Sandi_SLR Can I ask who are we actually addressing here, the people watching downloaded files, or people watching porn by streaming?

I'm using both ways, but the better quality would be more important for downloads IMO.

LordCrash

Which should close the debate about bitrate, which is no measure of quality. That's ridiculous.

Seriously, that's apples and oranges. Like 100% apples and oranges.

It's like saying "Bitrate doesn't matter because resolution matters much more".

Well, an 8k picture looks very, very likely more crisp than a 720p picture. No bitrate increase will ever make the 720p more crisp than the 8k picture. So yeah, you're king of right but...

...your statement also misses the whole point though...

The question at hand is not whether something else could be more benefital for picture quality but whether a higher bitrate without changing anything else would result in better quality. And well, yes, it does, especially if you starting bitrate is pretty small.

So no, bitrate is no measure of quality. But a higher bitrate can naturally improve the quality of a live video if you don't change anything else about it.

Rakly3 Let's say our new 6K version = quality-wise, our old 8K version. People are going to be unsubscribing and demanding refunds because they can't use the new 8K stream.

While I understand that argument I don't think that it's a pretty strong one. You could still make the "optimized for streaming 8k version" the standard version for streaming. The option to go for the masses. Or you could offer presets for users so that everybody could choose which version should be standard for them.

I think you use the same flawed logic like some game companies who try to fool people into thinking that their newest PC games couldn't offer the best visual quality because some people with older rigs could be alienated that they couldn't play the game on ultra presets. Which has been proven bollocks so many times in gaming history, it's basically a running joke right now. PC games offer different quality presets and you choose the one that matches your hardware etc. If you want to have better tech, upgrade your tech. Same applies here. If you want to have the best experience, buy the best headset. Invest in the best internet. Or just use an optimized reduced version and be happy with it. There are options for everyone, depends on personal investment and personal circumstances.

ISo really don't get the fear of lost sale here. It's much rather a scapegoat imho.

LordCrash

Sandi_SLR Can I ask who are we actually addressing here, the people watching downloaded files, or people watching porn by streaming?

Me, personally, 98% downloads right now. But I certainly wouldn't mind better quality for streaming since quality is pretty much all that counts for me. Best quality in streaming might convince me to use more streaming in the future tbh.

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