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doublevr HereSphere simply started stealing one SLR feature after another becoming a parasite from being a contributor. We simply don't want to do any business with him.

Heresphere is so much better than anything you guys offer right now. It's certainly A LOT better than DeoVR.

Which SLR features were "stolen" exactly? If he stole any of your trademarked features, sue him. But I guess you didn't trademark anything and he just tried to create the best possible VR player with whatever tech is available (and not trademarked) which is perfectly legit. That you call him a parasite and a thief says actually more about you than about him, I'm afraid. Completely unprofessional (again).

I think it's pretty astonishing that a single guy can make a better product than you guys with all your manpower and money. If he actually "stole" features from you his product should be on par with your prodcut, at best. But well, that's not the case, it's better. Maybe he's just better at what he's doing than the guys working for you? If you want to offer the best possible experience to your customers either give them access to the best available player or offer a better product yourself. If he actually "stole" from you, return the favor. What's the problem?

Reality is that Heresphere and XBVR give people a seriously better overall experience, just outside the SLR ecosystem. And that's something you guys obviously don't want in the hands of your subscribers...

      LordCrash As a content creator, I'm always on a mission to disambiguate trademark, copyright, and patent. (I say the below not to correct you but to give insight and talk about shit I find interesting. 😃 )

      A trademark is, like the name suggests, a mark that is used to trade (in the marketplace). This is usually a logo or a phrase that says to the consumer, for example, this a genuine Nike shoe. It's there to protect the consumer. And if the owner of the trademark doesn't defend it legally (cease and desist letters, lawsuits, etc), they could lose it.

      A copyright (ie, the right to copy) is a protection of someone's intellectual property, be it writing, music (sheet music or recordings), photographs, movies, etc. It's there to protect the creator. It exists the moment the creation is made, and lasts various lengths of time depending on local laws.

      A patent is a certification from a central entity that someone is responsible for, and therefore owns, a new invention or substantial improvement to an existing invention. Patents are incredibly expensive and usually take a couple years to receive. They're usually used to either sell a product containing the invention, or to legally license the invention to someone else for a profit.

      A patent would be the closest thing to what is being discussed here, but even if the tech isn't patented, it's still possible to rip someone off, legally.

      Steve Jobs stole the idea for a "window"-based visual UI while on a tour of the IBM dev department, and while it was legal, it was generally considered a dick move.

          Mutiny Yeah, you're right, I actually rather meant "patented" than "trademarked". I'm no native speaker so I apologize for the confusion.

          And yes, software industry is full of copycats, that's how software usually works in general. True innovation is sparse, most of the good software is basically based on other software but does the stuff people want in the best possible way.

          Instead of being a sorehead SLR should examine why Heresphere is better than their own player and how they could counter that with even better tech themselves. Or just work again with the best available product. It's business, not some pointless battle on the playground.

          And I might want to add that the Heresphere guy is much more open and transparent about his software and does a FAAAAAAAAAR better customer support than anybody does for Deo/SLR. I guess this at least wasn't something he stole from SLR as well... 🤣

            LordCrash I know you guys have a million and one reason for every stupid thing you fight for. What are we even discussing here? I gave you a legitimate most honest feedback which was only good for you to negatively push back on it.

            Do you really think we can discuss things like that? Learn to respect the other party if you want to keep discussion going. You guys are fast on judgement but short on getting sense of things. There's no magic world where I just randomly strike things. There's a lot of challenging day by day situations behind the scene and I'm doing my best to get things right.

            Otherwise HS steals all the business logic from SLR including scripts, streaming, etc. If the guy wants to fight business he has to figure out business first. We ain't doing shit for him with such a dick attitude.

                I guess this is why we have the term: "to stay one step in front of the competition". If you make a good product especially in a "early" product fase everybody is gonna copy everybodies best ideas. It's just how things are and even in an ideal world I think it would seriously hamstring innovation if this was not the case.

                In the apple example they stole an idea before it was widely available. A very different situation as that removes the competitive advantage of being the first to market.

                How companies usually deal with this in a competitive market is to stay ahead of the competition by continuously innovating and improving a product. If you have the best product with the latest features nobody is gonna even mention heresphere anymore. However just trying to cut of users and force them to use your app is never gonna work and will just irritate people.

                BTW, that is not to say I don't appreciate Deovr and especially all the innovation SLR puts in vr. Actually quite the opposite. I think your doing an awesome job at that. I just think the whole heresphere thing doesn't make much sense.

                  fenderwq Heresphere is just cherry picking what he wants to copy next from SLR logic. There is no innovation coming from him any more. He has a good player, now he wants to steal some business from us. It doesn't work like that. He was offered to cooperate and we supported him a lot in early days. But he chose not to cooperate

                      doublevr I don't really think this is what's happening tbh. Being part on the Heresphere discord server it seems to me he's just implementing user requests.
                      I think it's more something similar to this: If photoshop implemented a new ai background removal option and all the users of your photo editor software started to request this feature as well would you decline it because someone else beat you to the punch? Out of ethical considerations? To me, that just wouldn't make much sense tbh

                          fenderwq It just coincides that users request things from SLR outside of our eco-system because it's easy to steal what's out there. Somehow they are short coming up with new features that aren't on SLR LOL. And it just magically works exactly the same way as on SLR - because why would you re-invent it? Also I will tell you a secret that we pay a lot to stay ahead of competition getting the best devs and talents out there. Things like HS and XBVR are just there to steal content and features.

                          Do you understand now why we don't want to support such a poor business?

                              doublevr well SLR is my favourite vr site and part of that is the willingness of SLR to innovate and experiment (the other part of course the content). I also think you made vr very accessible to the masses, which someone that watches vr more casually than I will especially appreciate. You also have a cool player that lots of user are more than happy with. Those are all things that that dev money has bought you right?

                              As for the rest I'm afraid I still just don't see how it would be so bad for some of the more involved users to make up their own mind about what player to use.

                              Also if I where to use another player as deovr exclusively I'd still have a yearly membership at SLR + scripts.

                                  doublevr What are we even discussing here?

                                  Simple: That you still have the inferior VR player.

                                  You described why you don't like HS and I got it and appreciate the honesty. Problem remains that the player you offer is inferior to HS and therefore the OP is right with his critique from a customer perspective. As soon as DeoVR is as good or better as HS again I might also change my player again. That's up on you guys though.

                                    doublevr

                                    I think he's talking about in the SLR app, it's not there where it arguably is needed most since I don't use scripts WITHOUT the app

                                      doublevr How do XBVR and HS steal content? They just allow users to use content they bought from SLR and studio websites in the way they prefer. Even if you support a different player we will still have to pay you for the content.

                                      The layout with title screen thumbnails, hash tags and cuepoints aren't that unique and the most logical way to present and manage videos. I don't see how someone can steal such basic concepts.

                                      I guess the real problem is that Herephere API allows every small studio to offer streaming. That's why CzechVR, Naughty America, Wankz/POVR and soon Badoink network support that API - they want to offer streaming without investing in their own player or sharing revenue with SLR.

                                        Jacksonjdr94 I don't envy those who have purchased a lifetime subscription.

                                        I have a lifetime subscription and have for years-- please don't feel sorry for me. There's more great stuff here than I have time to watch. And the SLR app is much better than what the other sites offer.

                                          doublevr wait wait wait. Are you earnestly trying to argue that he "stole" concepts from a public-facing UI? If that's the case that we can claim you stole the concept of video streaming entirely from a number of websites. The web is a contributory ecosystem where the tide rises all ships. If he didn't steal source code from you then there is literally no argument. The majority of the modern web and the tools you use are quite literally ideas copied from others. Dude I don't know how ANYONE can try to claim that it's theft to create the same features as present elsewhere on the internet. Your entire video layout only exists because of patterns that one person created and rinse-repeat stolen across the web.

                                            doublevr I don't understand. I'm not a computer programmer. I had Heresphere before i had ever heard of Deovr player. Since he had it first did you steal from him in the beginning? I use it for every video and site other than SLR. How is Heresphere better than Deo if he is stealing from you? Is your 6dof a stolen feature? One of the best things that Heresphere does is have that always on and works amazingly. Deo player would be a lot better if you had that too. Steal it.

                                            Does letting the customer use it somehow allow him to steal. I still need a subscription to SLR.

                                            If I have to use Deovr player especially because you don't want me to download then make it as good as Heresphere. That would make life a lot easier.

                                            Please don't be mad at me because I like Heresphere better. Make Deovr player better than Heresphere and we the customer all win.

                                              If SLR don’t want to work with the Heresphere guy, that’s their decision. The fact is that they are, as I understand it, the number one VR porn site by some distance. If they went all in on Heresphere, it would undoubtedly lead to greater sales for the guy who owns it and they don’t want him to use their content to sell his VR player. By not supporting Heresphere, they are keeping a lot of people off it and using their own player instead. If people desperately want to watch SLRO stuff on Heresphere, they can but SLR aren’t going to set up an API over there and make it easy for him to make extra money off the back of their content if they don’t want to.

                                              As for VRB leaving? They can’t control what third party studios choose to do with their own content.

                                              I’m not saying all this as some SLR shill, I complain often about the lack of variety in their content. Fair is fair though, some things they can’t control and sometimes you don’t do business with people you don’t like/trust. It’s as simple as that.

                                                doublevr we pay a lot to stay ahead of competition getting the best devs

                                                clearly thats not the case because one ordinary guy has built a better app than your team of superstar devs

                                                  Jacksonjdr94 While I think it's a bit extreme to say they're taking away more than they add, you do have a point that SLR does have a tendency to take away features from subscribers. First it removed DLNA (only to add it back later), then all the points you listed as well. Every time, it's led to many disgruntled customers and a PR disaster.

                                                  I think SLR would benefit greatly from adopting a customer first mindset. Every decision should make the customer experience better, not worse. If anything gets removed, give the customers even more in return.

                                                  For example:
                                                  1) Removing Heresphere support -> Make DeoVR even better
                                                  Find out why so many users prefer Heresphere. Get devs to implement the features that users love, then add more features to make it even better. Nobody would complain about Heresphere if DeoVR was a far better player.

                                                  2) Losing VRBangers & VRConk -> Make deals with other bigger and better studios
                                                  We instantly lost hundreds of quality videos. Work towards signing on other big studios and get those videos replaced.

                                                  I think SLR does do a lot of things right. They added new features such as the hide feature, pass-through and BYOJ. They have great casting. They are actively looking to improve the UI. If they adopt a customer first mindset to EVERYTHING they do, they'll be loved by everybody.