Bitrate alternative for 8K SLROriginals.

Philip tell @doublevr that

Philip maybe you didnt read what was said earlier... the issue is that 200 mbps original files are complete and utter overkill. there isnt a single person who downloads who needs or wants a bitrate that high.

what is needed is an option with higher quality than the lowest common denominator 8k 30 mbps streaming oriented files... but without the ludicrous bitrate. surely you can offer a 8k option with something like 45-80 mbps in place of the 100-200 mbps original that no one wants? the only reason anybody downloads the 100-200 mbps original files is because they are forced to in order to get decent quality.

spacepirate

What he says @Philip

There is a sweet spot between 30 mpbs and 200 mbps for all users who enjoy the best possible experience without complete overkill.

30 mpbs is too low (possible video artefacts and noise) and 200 mbps is too high (completely overblown file size).

60-80 mbps would be a perfect fit for most people. Very good quality with still a reasonable file size, probably somewhere between 20 and 30 GB.

I understand that you are "a streaming focused service" and that's ok. Nobody said that you should stop streaming. But maybe you don't understand though that at least quite a few of your customers are not happy with that pig-headed approach and still prefer downloads, e.g. for having the best possible quality. Maybe you should listen to your customers instead of just pushing an agenda at any sacrifice. In the end, we are the ones paying for your bills...

innol

What is Video Bitrate, and how does it Affect Video Quality?
In simple terms, video bitrate refers to the amount of video bits/data transferred within a second. It is vital to note that video bits are just strings of data that make up the video you watch. They’re more like the digital building blocks of your videos.

Since bitrate has to do with the amount of ‘data bits’ being transferred along with the ‘rate’ (i.e., speed) at which the transfer is occurring, it is measured in bits per second (bps). Higher variations include kilobits per second (Kbps) and megabits per second (Mbps).

Basically, when you have a higher bitrate, it means that a larger amount of ‘video bits’ are being uploaded within a second. This naturally leads to a higher quality video relative to its resolution. Also, increasing the bitrate will increase the size of your output video file and result in relatively slower export.

Conversely, lower bitrate results in lower video quality, smaller size, and faster export.

Another thing to understand is that you need to use just the right amount of bitrates, as extremely high bitrates would be wasting your bandwidth, and could potentially affect your hardware.

Bitrate vs. Resolution: Which is More Important for Video Quality?
Video resolution refers to the number of picture elements (pixels) spread across a display unit. A higher concentration of pixels (a.k.a higher resolution) leads to higher visual quality.

I’m sure you’ve heard much more about video resolution than video bitrate. But does that make it more important for video quality?

Well, not exactly.

Basically, higher resolution yields a clearer picture. On the other hand, higher bitrate yields smoother playback. Thus, a high-res video with low bitrate will produce a cringy output. You could say the same for high bitrate and low resolution.

In essence, there has to be a balance between high resolution and high bitrate.

In short, SLR's 30 mbps bitrate is way too low for 8k VR scenes, it's just not balanced and can result in noise and artefacts, especially in scenes with a lot of movement, like in outdoor scene with a lot of foliage and trees etc. That's by the way also the reason why most VR studios rarely shoot outside. The lacking bitrate is most often too glaring with such backgrounds...

I understand that they use 30 mbps for streaming in order to keep their costs low and in order to provide a stable stream for people with less than optimal internet bandwidth but it's just sad that there is no option for a high quality download file with a good balance between resolution and bitrate which would be at least 50 or 50 mbps for 8k VR resolution. Every proficient video producer would do so since it's the best possible output for the content they created.

SLR basically shoots with good tech and then they artificially limit their video output because streaming at relatively low costs is obviously almost everything they really care about. The master file with a bitrate of like 200 mpbs is obviously no good alternative either since it's also completely unbalanced. It's also a pretty "cheap" offering since there has to be no encoding for this master file.

Well, I don't wonder that they went back to their old 6k rig since it's apparently good enough for streaming anyway. But I'm still hoping that we'll see a well balanced output option for best possible quality one day, in 8k with 60 mbps or better. Hope dies last...

innol Higher bitrate preserves more details and avoids artifacts from compression. If the bitrate is too low details get lost like a DVD or Bluray played on a 4K TV. The TV still shows 4K pixels, but a DVD/Bluray can't deliver 4K unique pixels.

Or like music played from a greeting card - it's the same song, but details get lost, because they used a small memory chip instead of a bigger one that could save a high quality iTunes song.

@Rakly3 @doublevr

Still no answer for this request?

60 mbps would be perfect, especially for scenes with a lot of background noise.

Could we please stay on topic?

I've checked what some of the most popular studios use for their highest resolution files at the moment:

Top Tier
CzechVR 57/76Mbps (8K)
VRP 50Mbps (8K)
VR Bangers + VRConk 46-48Mbps (8K)
WankzVR + MilfVR + POVR 42-48Mbps (7K)

Medium Tier
NaughtyAmerica + Tonights Girlfriend 41-43Mbps (8K)
BrasilVR 39-43Mbps (7K)
KinkVR 40Mbps (7K)
BadoinkVR + 18VR + VRCosplayX 38/42Mbps (7K)
VirtualTaboo + DarkRoomVR 37/38Mbps (7K)

Bottom Tier
RealJamVR 29Mbps (7K) - like SLR they offer huge original files which are unfit for "daily use" as high quality alternative
SLR Originals 28/29Mbps (8K)
VRediging + VRsolos (on SLR) 17Mbps (6K)

So the industry standard seems to be 46-57Mbps for 8K videos and 37-43Mbps for 7K videos. 47-50Mbps should be sufficient to join the top tier for 8K files.

Looks like SLR is aiming for two more industry records with the highest (original files) and lowest bitrates.

It's a lot more complicated than just the bitrate.

erniescar69 The downloads don't affect which formats we render. The files could be made a lot smaller at the same quality if we were just concerned about offering downloadable files. They would be terrible for streaming though. All our (non-studio) files are encoded for streaming, and compatible with as broad as possible devices and systems.

Rakly3
I do wonder though why pretty much every other major VR porn studio offers a higher bitrate for their high resolution downloadable files.

It's not like all the others hate streaming, quite the contrary...

And the difference is obvious. CVR files for example look better than any SLR vid so far...

Maybe you simply have not found the best solution for this issue yet...

Rakly3 It's a lot more complicated than just the bitrate.

Sure, image quality depends on different factors and some studios look worse, even if they use a higher bitrate.

Depends on the camera, source resolution, film grain, scene details like lightning/brightness and post production too, but the bitrate sets limits and if it's too low, you can't prevent a loss of detail - you can't compensate for everything with encoder settings or by preparing the video in a certain way.

After all the scene content and codec are the same or similar between all studios and almost all of them came to the conclusion, that they need higher average bitrates to preserve as much detail as possible, while keeping file sizes reasonable and save server capacities and bandwidth.

LordCrash well other studios arent trying to be 100% streaming focused like slr.

even with the low bitrates slr struggles to deliver stable, reliable streaming. my internet connection is easily fast enough and the streaming experience still sucks with slr. anyway... i digress.. thats a different discussion.

someoneX After all the scene content and codec are the same or similar between all studios and almost all of them came to the conclusion, that they need higher average bitrates to preserve as much detail as possible, while keeping file sizes reasonable and save server capacities and bandwidth.

That's actually common sense in the video industry that ultra high resolution content requires a proper bitrates. 30 mbps is definitely not enough and results in a poor image with a lot of nosie. Just look at my post above, for 4k and better at 60 FPS the bitrate should be at least 50 mbps, better 60 mbps or better.

SLR should at least be honest and say: "We do it to save costs because higher bitrates mean bigger files and more data traffic that we have to pay for. We can't reduce resolution due to marketing reasons but we can reduce the bitrate to make a few extra bucks."

It's definitely NOT a technical issue since all the other studios obviously have no issue at all releasing scenes at the same resolution but with a much better bitrate - all of these files can be streamed as well.

I actually think that I pay a reasonable monthy subscription fee to get proper ultra high videos with a bitrate that fits the resolution. It's a damn shame that great content is artificially worsened by a lacking video bitrate.

LordCrash I do wonder though why pretty much every other major VR porn studio offers a higher bitrate for their high resolution downloadable files.

It's a valid question and comparison as a consumer. The main difference is that we have a load-balancing streaming network, while other sites have a file server. Not just the bandwidth, but the servers themselves work completely differently. - I also want to note that the download files on SLR are the same files used for streaming.

You can try it at home, copy a video file over your network from one device to another.
Then set up a server that can stream to several devices at the same time, all viewing a different video.

Even with tools like Plex, it will still take you some setting up, trial and error, to make it work correctly. The PC you use as a server also will need to be quite a bit more powerful. - A 1Gbps network connection is pretty standard these days, but you can saturate it pretty easily if you have to keep all streams going at the same time. All the videos that are being streamed also have to be cached in the memory, so you now also have to worry about decking out the server with enough mem.

This is of course true for all streaming services, but even at 30Mbps per file, that's still 10 times more than other non-VR services.

I'm sure in time the bitrates will go up, but it's not as simple as starting to encode at higher rates. The network would have to expand quite substantially too. Take with that, many streaming hosts don't even allow you to stream at 30Mbps per stream, let alone 80. Then, there's the porn aspect too. There are hosts that don't want to offer porn content either. - So you're starting to get pretty limited even before you're up and running. - We even have users where their ISP doesn't allow them to watch streams at 30Mbps. They subscribe, use the service a couple of days, BAM, they're throttled. - This does happen less and less, however. But it's perfectly legal in the USA with the abolishment of net neutrality. (Unless it changed again, I don't follow it really)

The ideal solution would be how Google (youtube) and Netflix work, having servers inside the ISP networks of the customers. This doesn't cost the ISP much, if anything. When an ISP has to traffic data outside their own network, it costs them money.