Bitrate alternative for 8K SLROriginals.

Philip Guys, those files are for streaming, you just have option to download them, I think I don't need to explain why 30Mpbs for streaming is important

Of course you don't need to explain that =) 30 Mbps is definitely the right call for streaming.

But the first part of your statement is still of concern. And also, that brings me back to my initial question: why bother advancing VR tech, spend so much resources on better resolution, color, picture quality, lighting, etc, but then have the end-product be squashed? (And I'm not debating downloading vs streaming here, but just earnestly saying why would SLR not want to offer a better download option for people that have higher end PCs and headsets that can benefit from all the VR advancements that SLR has accomplished in the past few years?)

@Philip Haha. No wonder this conversation sounded familiar actually. Looks like we talked about this very thing before in 2020, when the compressed 5k file was 21Mbps and the Mezz was 120Mbps. I guess every few years these discussions are worth having again. And of course, total respect for what you do.

Philip

I think I don't have to explain again why I don't give a shit about streaming and that only downloads are the real thing? There have been WAY too many bad examples for that lately. And streaming will NEVER provide the same quality than a proper download file.

It's not too hard to offer a good download file, just like CVR does. You want to compete with them in terms of content and quality? Well then do your homeworks instead of making pointless excuses. Customer first, you know...

Guys we are streaming focused service, if you want a good quality -> download original file

Philip tell @doublevr that

Philip maybe you didnt read what was said earlier... the issue is that 200 mbps original files are complete and utter overkill. there isnt a single person who downloads who needs or wants a bitrate that high.

what is needed is an option with higher quality than the lowest common denominator 8k 30 mbps streaming oriented files... but without the ludicrous bitrate. surely you can offer a 8k option with something like 45-80 mbps in place of the 100-200 mbps original that no one wants? the only reason anybody downloads the 100-200 mbps original files is because they are forced to in order to get decent quality.

spacepirate

What he says @Philip

There is a sweet spot between 30 mpbs and 200 mbps for all users who enjoy the best possible experience without complete overkill.

30 mpbs is too low (possible video artefacts and noise) and 200 mbps is too high (completely overblown file size).

60-80 mbps would be a perfect fit for most people. Very good quality with still a reasonable file size, probably somewhere between 20 and 30 GB.

I understand that you are "a streaming focused service" and that's ok. Nobody said that you should stop streaming. But maybe you don't understand though that at least quite a few of your customers are not happy with that pig-headed approach and still prefer downloads, e.g. for having the best possible quality. Maybe you should listen to your customers instead of just pushing an agenda at any sacrifice. In the end, we are the ones paying for your bills...

innol

What is Video Bitrate, and how does it Affect Video Quality?
In simple terms, video bitrate refers to the amount of video bits/data transferred within a second. It is vital to note that video bits are just strings of data that make up the video you watch. They’re more like the digital building blocks of your videos.

Since bitrate has to do with the amount of ‘data bits’ being transferred along with the ‘rate’ (i.e., speed) at which the transfer is occurring, it is measured in bits per second (bps). Higher variations include kilobits per second (Kbps) and megabits per second (Mbps).

Basically, when you have a higher bitrate, it means that a larger amount of ‘video bits’ are being uploaded within a second. This naturally leads to a higher quality video relative to its resolution. Also, increasing the bitrate will increase the size of your output video file and result in relatively slower export.

Conversely, lower bitrate results in lower video quality, smaller size, and faster export.

Another thing to understand is that you need to use just the right amount of bitrates, as extremely high bitrates would be wasting your bandwidth, and could potentially affect your hardware.

Bitrate vs. Resolution: Which is More Important for Video Quality?
Video resolution refers to the number of picture elements (pixels) spread across a display unit. A higher concentration of pixels (a.k.a higher resolution) leads to higher visual quality.

I’m sure you’ve heard much more about video resolution than video bitrate. But does that make it more important for video quality?

Well, not exactly.

Basically, higher resolution yields a clearer picture. On the other hand, higher bitrate yields smoother playback. Thus, a high-res video with low bitrate will produce a cringy output. You could say the same for high bitrate and low resolution.

In essence, there has to be a balance between high resolution and high bitrate.

In short, SLR's 30 mbps bitrate is way too low for 8k VR scenes, it's just not balanced and can result in noise and artefacts, especially in scenes with a lot of movement, like in outdoor scene with a lot of foliage and trees etc. That's by the way also the reason why most VR studios rarely shoot outside. The lacking bitrate is most often too glaring with such backgrounds...

I understand that they use 30 mbps for streaming in order to keep their costs low and in order to provide a stable stream for people with less than optimal internet bandwidth but it's just sad that there is no option for a high quality download file with a good balance between resolution and bitrate which would be at least 50 or 50 mbps for 8k VR resolution. Every proficient video producer would do so since it's the best possible output for the content they created.

SLR basically shoots with good tech and then they artificially limit their video output because streaming at relatively low costs is obviously almost everything they really care about. The master file with a bitrate of like 200 mpbs is obviously no good alternative either since it's also completely unbalanced. It's also a pretty "cheap" offering since there has to be no encoding for this master file.

Well, I don't wonder that they went back to their old 6k rig since it's apparently good enough for streaming anyway. But I'm still hoping that we'll see a well balanced output option for best possible quality one day, in 8k with 60 mbps or better. Hope dies last...

innol Higher bitrate preserves more details and avoids artifacts from compression. If the bitrate is too low details get lost like a DVD or Bluray played on a 4K TV. The TV still shows 4K pixels, but a DVD/Bluray can't deliver 4K unique pixels.

Or like music played from a greeting card - it's the same song, but details get lost, because they used a small memory chip instead of a bigger one that could save a high quality iTunes song.

@Rakly3 @doublevr

Still no answer for this request?

60 mbps would be perfect, especially for scenes with a lot of background noise.

Could we please stay on topic?

I've checked what some of the most popular studios use for their highest resolution files at the moment:

Top Tier
CzechVR 57/76Mbps (8K)
VRP 50Mbps (8K)
VR Bangers + VRConk 46-48Mbps (8K)
WankzVR + MilfVR + POVR 42-48Mbps (7K)

Medium Tier
NaughtyAmerica + Tonights Girlfriend 41-43Mbps (8K)
BrasilVR 39-43Mbps (7K)
KinkVR 40Mbps (7K)
BadoinkVR + 18VR + VRCosplayX 38/42Mbps (7K)
VirtualTaboo + DarkRoomVR 37/38Mbps (7K)

Bottom Tier
RealJamVR 29Mbps (7K) - like SLR they offer huge original files which are unfit for "daily use" as high quality alternative
SLR Originals 28/29Mbps (8K)
VRediging + VRsolos (on SLR) 17Mbps (6K)

So the industry standard seems to be 46-57Mbps for 8K videos and 37-43Mbps for 7K videos. 47-50Mbps should be sufficient to join the top tier for 8K files.

Looks like SLR is aiming for two more industry records with the highest (original files) and lowest bitrates.

It's a lot more complicated than just the bitrate.

erniescar69 The downloads don't affect which formats we render. The files could be made a lot smaller at the same quality if we were just concerned about offering downloadable files. They would be terrible for streaming though. All our (non-studio) files are encoded for streaming, and compatible with as broad as possible devices and systems.