Bitrate alternative for 8K SLROriginals.

@LordCrash

DoubleVR writes "Czech". CzechVR is part of the Czech VR Network, which comprises CzechVR, CzechVRCasting, and CzechVRFetish. You can sub to it separately here https://www.czechvrnetwork.com/members/.

Don't mix-up the point, or attempt to use hyperbole to deflect the argument. Downloading is great. But not many folks download the originals above 100 GB (statistics doublevr ?). Yes, I'm poor and probably should look for a better headset, but 100 GB, given the present state of technology, remains a stretch even for middleclass folks. Only true aficionados of VR, with a Varjo Aero or the like, would actually be able to see the difference between a 70 GB VR experience and one that is above 100 GB. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 20 GB remains the upper limit for many other sites. How many 100 GB files have you downloaded, and would you consider yourself an 'average' or 'common' user of VR? If you don't consider yourself an average user of VR, why should the average user be expected to cover the additional costs of excessive usage? I just hope these guys stay in business, because the extensiveness of their library is very impressive (the best I've ever seen, but again I'm new to all this).

If price isn't an issue the hardware you want is Varjo Aero. Setting aside the Varjo VR-3 and Varjo XR-3 (for Augmented Reality Experiences), that's the best headset available today. It has a resolution of 2880x2720 per-eye and can be used for hours without fatigue. Instead of Fresnel lenses it has aspheric lenses. The headset itself is expertly counterbalanced to hang above your nose, so you don't feel as though you are wearing it. It's very popular for training pilots.

This through-the-lens will blow your mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hZ2n6pBU_s

spacepirate the files we get are 8k60fps with 8 bit color depth for both czechvr and slr. czechvr using 60-80 mbps depending on the scene and slr using 30 mbps.

I should have chimed in earlier about this, because I've also been wanting a higher bitrate for the compressed 8k SLROriginals files. And @mirdumar @spacepirate and @LordCrash are right on the money in this regard.

I still download the Original "Mezz" file (200 Mbps) for my favorite 8k SLRO scenes, but obviously that is not something I want to do on a regular basis because it's not practical.

However, the compressed 8k file (which is 8 bit color) does not have the bitrate it needs for a 8000x4000 hevc video file. Especially with the beautiful colors and lighting that SLRO scenes have (some with nice landscapes, outdoor scenery and the likes), the extra bitrate is 100% necessary. That is why CzechVR pushes their 8k files to 80 Mbps bit rate. They even pump in more bitrate to their scenes when it is shot outdoors.

I think it's important that the 8k SLROriginal scenes are flexible in this regard. Why shoot such cutting edge VR scenes and spend all the resources and energy on the rig, lighting, editing, post production, all for it to be crushed in a 30 Mbps download? Especially as computers get faster, and VR headsets keep advancing, technology can support higher bitrates, and it's very noticeable when the bitrate is limiting the end-result. We've been using 30 Mbps encodes since the 5k days of VR. For 8k, it certainly needs to be at least 60Mbps.

And for more comparisons, of other companies using the Canon 8k rig:

• VRHush/VRAllure/FuckpassVR: 45 Mbps & 90 Mbps (Mezz)
• NaughtyAmerica: 45 Mbps
• LethalHardcore: 80 Mbps (Mezz)

Philip Guys, those files are for streaming, you just have option to download them, I think I don't need to explain why 30Mpbs for streaming is important

Of course you don't need to explain that =) 30 Mbps is definitely the right call for streaming.

But the first part of your statement is still of concern. And also, that brings me back to my initial question: why bother advancing VR tech, spend so much resources on better resolution, color, picture quality, lighting, etc, but then have the end-product be squashed? (And I'm not debating downloading vs streaming here, but just earnestly saying why would SLR not want to offer a better download option for people that have higher end PCs and headsets that can benefit from all the VR advancements that SLR has accomplished in the past few years?)

@Philip Haha. No wonder this conversation sounded familiar actually. Looks like we talked about this very thing before in 2020, when the compressed 5k file was 21Mbps and the Mezz was 120Mbps. I guess every few years these discussions are worth having again. And of course, total respect for what you do.

Philip

I think I don't have to explain again why I don't give a shit about streaming and that only downloads are the real thing? There have been WAY too many bad examples for that lately. And streaming will NEVER provide the same quality than a proper download file.

It's not too hard to offer a good download file, just like CVR does. You want to compete with them in terms of content and quality? Well then do your homeworks instead of making pointless excuses. Customer first, you know...

Guys we are streaming focused service, if you want a good quality -> download original file

Philip tell @doublevr that

Philip maybe you didnt read what was said earlier... the issue is that 200 mbps original files are complete and utter overkill. there isnt a single person who downloads who needs or wants a bitrate that high.

what is needed is an option with higher quality than the lowest common denominator 8k 30 mbps streaming oriented files... but without the ludicrous bitrate. surely you can offer a 8k option with something like 45-80 mbps in place of the 100-200 mbps original that no one wants? the only reason anybody downloads the 100-200 mbps original files is because they are forced to in order to get decent quality.

spacepirate

What he says @Philip

There is a sweet spot between 30 mpbs and 200 mbps for all users who enjoy the best possible experience without complete overkill.

30 mpbs is too low (possible video artefacts and noise) and 200 mbps is too high (completely overblown file size).

60-80 mbps would be a perfect fit for most people. Very good quality with still a reasonable file size, probably somewhere between 20 and 30 GB.

I understand that you are "a streaming focused service" and that's ok. Nobody said that you should stop streaming. But maybe you don't understand though that at least quite a few of your customers are not happy with that pig-headed approach and still prefer downloads, e.g. for having the best possible quality. Maybe you should listen to your customers instead of just pushing an agenda at any sacrifice. In the end, we are the ones paying for your bills...

innol

What is Video Bitrate, and how does it Affect Video Quality?
In simple terms, video bitrate refers to the amount of video bits/data transferred within a second. It is vital to note that video bits are just strings of data that make up the video you watch. They’re more like the digital building blocks of your videos.

Since bitrate has to do with the amount of ‘data bits’ being transferred along with the ‘rate’ (i.e., speed) at which the transfer is occurring, it is measured in bits per second (bps). Higher variations include kilobits per second (Kbps) and megabits per second (Mbps).

Basically, when you have a higher bitrate, it means that a larger amount of ‘video bits’ are being uploaded within a second. This naturally leads to a higher quality video relative to its resolution. Also, increasing the bitrate will increase the size of your output video file and result in relatively slower export.

Conversely, lower bitrate results in lower video quality, smaller size, and faster export.

Another thing to understand is that you need to use just the right amount of bitrates, as extremely high bitrates would be wasting your bandwidth, and could potentially affect your hardware.

Bitrate vs. Resolution: Which is More Important for Video Quality?
Video resolution refers to the number of picture elements (pixels) spread across a display unit. A higher concentration of pixels (a.k.a higher resolution) leads to higher visual quality.

I’m sure you’ve heard much more about video resolution than video bitrate. But does that make it more important for video quality?

Well, not exactly.

Basically, higher resolution yields a clearer picture. On the other hand, higher bitrate yields smoother playback. Thus, a high-res video with low bitrate will produce a cringy output. You could say the same for high bitrate and low resolution.

In essence, there has to be a balance between high resolution and high bitrate.

In short, SLR's 30 mbps bitrate is way too low for 8k VR scenes, it's just not balanced and can result in noise and artefacts, especially in scenes with a lot of movement, like in outdoor scene with a lot of foliage and trees etc. That's by the way also the reason why most VR studios rarely shoot outside. The lacking bitrate is most often too glaring with such backgrounds...

I understand that they use 30 mbps for streaming in order to keep their costs low and in order to provide a stable stream for people with less than optimal internet bandwidth but it's just sad that there is no option for a high quality download file with a good balance between resolution and bitrate which would be at least 50 or 50 mbps for 8k VR resolution. Every proficient video producer would do so since it's the best possible output for the content they created.

SLR basically shoots with good tech and then they artificially limit their video output because streaming at relatively low costs is obviously almost everything they really care about. The master file with a bitrate of like 200 mpbs is obviously no good alternative either since it's also completely unbalanced. It's also a pretty "cheap" offering since there has to be no encoding for this master file.

Well, I don't wonder that they went back to their old 6k rig since it's apparently good enough for streaming anyway. But I'm still hoping that we'll see a well balanced output option for best possible quality one day, in 8k with 60 mbps or better. Hope dies last...

innol Higher bitrate preserves more details and avoids artifacts from compression. If the bitrate is too low details get lost like a DVD or Bluray played on a 4K TV. The TV still shows 4K pixels, but a DVD/Bluray can't deliver 4K unique pixels.

Or like music played from a greeting card - it's the same song, but details get lost, because they used a small memory chip instead of a bigger one that could save a high quality iTunes song.