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  • AI Upscale proof based discussion

I don't do any AI upscaling myself, but to me, I can definitely see the difference between an older NA 3k video file with a AI-enhanced 8k video file (done by a fan, not by NA themselves).

Here is a screenshot of my own for comparison. Both are from the same frame and both from the "left" lens.
(Left 8k, AI-enhanced) || (Right 3k, original)

https://i.imgur.com/5DRclv7.png
The left side (remaster) is definitely clearer and has more detail (look at the guy's hair between his belly and dick), and it is smooth (it doesn't have the jaggies on the edges like common "upscale" videos do). The right side (original) also has some compression artifacts (look at Karla's cheekbones) and lots of jagged edges that the remaster removed.

But it's the AI-enhanced that makes all the difference. I do agree with what @doublevr is saying regarding how many studios are simply exporting lower res files to higher res (like 7k and 8k) and all they are doing is using some basic "sharpening" filters. I don't like this practice, as it is false advertising and just balloons the file size. But from my experience, seeing the few really well-done AI enhanced remasters are pretty cool for those legacy scenes from years back.

    g2kbuffetboy I can definitely see the difference between an older NA 3k video file with a AI-enhanced 8k video file (done by a fan, not by NA themselves).

    do you have a link for that?

        doublevr Sure thing. I'll DM you on reddit because it is a "free" link and I don't want to support those on these forums =)

          g2kbuffetboy otherwise can't really see any real difference. Neither it is going to be seen in VR. Can't justify any effort in that direction.

            doublevr I bought a copy of Topaz Labs video AI enhancement. It CAN do quite some impressive things. But there are many caveats and does not work in every instance.

            PH default quality 400% zoom

            AI Enhance


            Been experimenting but the longer the video, the harder it is to get consistent results. So I'm looking into using different enhancements of the same video and then use masking/blending to try and get the best results. But it's a lot of work + am still learning.

                doublevr

                None of that is seen in the headset ¯(ツ)/¯

                You can when you know where to look. As the benefit is mostly seen in the background it is still very subjective if the upscale is really better, but it is there and in some parts undenieable.
                Also the pink lights show less jaggies in the upscaled picture, and they are a huge distraction in an otherwise great video. Unfortunately they are still there, so it is not a huge improvement, but a slight one nonetheless.

                I am wondering if and how much it would be better if the upscaling would have been done on the "RAW" material and not an already sharpened final output. This already has some slight sharpening artifacts which usually get worse with upscaling, and also limit how aggressive you can use sharpening during upscaling before it becomes too much.

                    ibins we can provide you one to try. just let me know the video and where to send

                      spacepirate That's (imho) part of the problem- there are definitely studios who are just doing raw upscaling so instead of 5k they can release "7k/8k". Technically they're not wrong, but their image quality obviously doesn't improve with the increased resolution.

                      Topaz VEAI is a very cool application but agree with Rakly3 that it is challenging to actually get worthwhile results. I've been messing around with it for 6+ months in my personal life, and things can look hugely improved w/ a 2d comparative split screen of before/after...but then after spending a week to render 1 scene and putting on the headset to watch what you've made, it often looks either entirely too "artificial" or alternatively it only looks marginally improved from the original (meaning it was not worth the time & effort).

                      And the bigger argument to be made imho is that with camera improvements in the past year or so, along with the upcoming 8k cameras- there will be no need for AI upscaling. Already there are studios whose scenes I have not been able to "improve" at all using Topaz, even just with the 2d comparison.

                          doublevr Wankz upscale looks absolute garbage to me. Seems like overupscaled. Totally unwatchable.

                          LOL, dude. Are you on one of your pointless crusades again? Such exaggeration is ridiculous. At worst, the AI upscales is hardly any different to the original file (despite being substantially bigger), at best, the picture is a bit more clear and less grainy.

                          Nobody said that you had to remaster any of your own scenes though. If you don't want to do it, simply don't do it. But maybe you shouldn't base your whole strategy on only your individual vision "aka I can't see it so nobody can see it". That's the best way to ruin VR since visual perception can be wildly different between different persons...

                          Rakly3 That is not simply upscaling though. It's the AI interpreting the image according to parameters you set.

                          That's also what Wankz is doing...

                                LordCrash wankz remasters are badly stretched for me. It feels lacking a lot and 0 immersion. Every body and object is very unnatural. Totally can't watch.

                                For some reason original videos were fine. No idea how did they manage to break it completely. At least for me.

                                Never understood you guys screaming for such remasters. Not the first time users are totally wrong.

                                    spacepirate

                                    can't really make sense of many things people are screaming for. glad it works for some of you guys seeing magic where there is none while we are sticking to proof based stuff.

                                    once again, the "gains" you see with upscales posted here are not necessarily improving perception. many times the image feel very unnatural with that "AI" crap

                                      doublevr

                                      wankz remasters are badly stretched for me. It feels lacking a lot and 0 immersion. Every body and object is very unnatural. Totally can't watch.

                                      They are bad compared to modern 6k/7k videos, but they are an improvement to their original videos.
                                      That said there also sometimes quite huge differences how much they improve. I was pretty blown away how much better their first remaster was, I still have the original and the remastered file, and the difference is huge. (Gina Valentina and Bailey Brooke in Easter Bunnies).

                                      The improvement of some newer scenes was quite a bit less, I am wondering if they cut back quality, to push out more remasters, as they said I think that it needs multiple days to upscale just one video.

                                      I think the problem is more the expectation. Is an AI Upscaled video better then a video that is natively shot in the higher resolution? Of course not. Is it better then the original, well usually yes. If it is worth all the additional processing, well at least questionable, certainly for new things shooting with better cameras is always the superior solution. But for older things, where you either have the choice of a crappy video or a somewhat less crappy video most will prefer the latter.

                                          ibins I was pretty blown away how much better their first remaster was

                                          In the gearvr the remastered are not as noticeable, but since I got a quest 2 recently 😏...
                                          the remastered is very noticeable 👍

                                            10 months later

                                            Just met Topaz creators. They confirmed its useless to upscale 4K to 8K. Also it's intended for flat content and significant work is required on their end to make it work with vr because of projection.

                                            We arranged they will take one video and do their best to upscale the very center of the video to see if it is even worth doing any further research.

                                              2 months later

                                              No visual improvements? Are the improvements worth it should be a better question. Without a doubt there are visual improvements. Again, the source material must have good exposure and noise/block levels. Nothing will be able to fix that. If those old really blocky scenes were being upscaled, I can see why they would not work. I will work on getting some samples up for people to compare on their own.